Author Topic: Juno  (Read 22101 times)

Rufish

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Re: Juno
« Reply #10 on: December 06, 2007, 09:35:06 AM »
"I believe that would be kicking it 'old testament'."

I was very much hoping they would keep Juno and Mark's relationship platonic through the film. Seeing quirky people find one another is a pleasure in movies, and it bothered me that Mark felt his eventual actions were appropriate enough to pursue (his interests with Juno, not the divorce itself). Perhaps it's partially to do with my hang-ups with infidelity story lines, but I started losing hope in the film after this point. By the end, though, all was redeemed by the handling of Vanessa's character.
Which leads to my major appreciation of the flick:  while I agree with the majority that Ellen Page does a phenomenal job in the lead role, I have to side with my friend and say that the real star of the film was the script. Initially I worried it was only interested in showcasing strong women with either clueless or one-dimensional male characters floating in the background. As it develops, however, it shows a true appreciation for every character, setting most of their situations in a more believeable reality than some other quirky indie comedies (*cough*littlemisssunshine*cough*).

I really hope it's recognized come Oscar time.
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andyg

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Re: Juno
« Reply #11 on: December 06, 2007, 11:11:41 AM »
Yeah, the script becomes unexpectedly compassionate as it goes on.

My only gripe is that its too short. I wouldnt have minded another ten minutes in the final third, it felt a little rushed to me.

ses

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Re: Juno
« Reply #12 on: December 15, 2007, 03:56:27 PM »
I really like it.  At first, I was annoyed with all the quirkiness and the clever dialogue that Juno has, but then you begin to realize that she does as a defense mechanism.  She tries to be very adult and show that she doesn't care about her baby or about Bleeker, but she does and I found it very endearing.  I thought the movie was cast wonderfully, and I am excited to see what Diablo Cody does next. 
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Scalzo

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Re: Juno
« Reply #13 on: December 17, 2007, 09:44:48 PM »
Just got back from my sneak preview.  Loved it!!!  It'll be in my top films of '07 no doubt, joining Once (dvd tomorrow!!) and No Country.
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skjerva

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Re: Juno
« Reply #14 on: December 19, 2007, 09:51:15 PM »

I was very much hoping they would keep Juno and Mark's relationship platonic through the film. Seeing quirky people find one another is a pleasure in movies, and it bothered me that Mark felt his eventual actions were appropriate enough to pursue (his interests with Juno, not the divorce itself). Perhaps it's partially to do with my hang-ups with infidelity story lines, but I started losing hope in the film after this point. By the end, though, all was redeemed by the handling of Vanessa's character.

Having Mark (Bateman) fall for and put moves onto Juno is about "punishing" that type of character - or making him look stupid and inappropriate - as an anti-marriage, anti-breeding non-grown-up.  See, those people that can't make marriage work and don't want babies are wrong-headed perverts that like little girls.  That entire storyline was heavy-handed as the first time we meet Mark as he is asked what he thinks about having kids/being a father, he replies with a clearly awkward and vacuous statement - no nuance and sloppily developed.  Instead of the shared interests of Mark and Juno inspiring Mark to do what he wants, the film-makers scapegoat him as some kind of peter pan.  One of many problems with the film.
But I wish the public could, in the midst of its pleasures, see how blatantly it is being spoon-fed, and ask for slightly better dreams. 
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Adam

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Re: Juno
« Reply #15 on: December 19, 2007, 10:52:17 PM »
Having Mark (Bateman) fall for and put moves onto Juno is about "punishing" that type of character - or making him look stupid and inappropriate - as an anti-marriage, anti-breeding non-grown-up.  See, those people that can't make marriage work and don't want babies are wrong-headed perverts that like little girls.  That entire storyline was heavy-handed as the first time we meet Mark as he is asked what he thinks about having kids/being a father, he replies with a clearly awkward and vacuous statement - no nuance and sloppily developed.  Instead of the shared interests of Mark and Juno inspiring Mark to do what he wants, the film-makers scapegoat him as some kind of peter pan.  One of many problems with the film.
For crying out loud, he didn't really 'put moves on her.' Nor does he 'fall for her.' I haven't seen the movie in a while, but that reading is just factually wrong. And I'm sorry, but finding a high school girl attractive does not make you a pervert; it could get you into a lot of trouble, and I wouldn't recommend anyone act on it. But that entire argument is kind of crazy. Plus, Bateman emerges as enough of a sympathetic character that it is quite clear the filmmakers do not intend to indict him of anything. He is a Peter Pan character; that's the nuance. That's the confusion that leads him to an awkward moment with Juno. He needs to grow up. Having Juno inspire him would have been cheesy; this film is better than that.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2007, 11:00:28 PM by Adam »
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skjerva

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Re: Juno
« Reply #16 on: December 19, 2007, 11:15:52 PM »
Having Mark (Bateman) fall for and put moves onto Juno is about "punishing" that type of character - or making him look stupid and inappropriate - as an anti-marriage, anti-breeding non-grown-up.  See, those people that can't make marriage work and don't want babies are wrong-headed perverts that like little girls.  That entire storyline was heavy-handed as the first time we meet Mark as he is asked what he thinks about having kids/being a father, he replies with a clearly awkward and vacuous statement - no nuance and sloppily developed.  Instead of the shared interests of Mark and Juno inspiring Mark to do what he wants, the film-makers scapegoat him as some kind of peter pan.  One of many problems with the film.
For crying out loud, he didn't really 'put moves on her.' Nor does he 'fall for her.' I haven't seen the movie in a while, but that reading is just factually wrong. And I'm sorry, but finding a high school girl attractive does not make you a pervert; it could get you into a lot of trouble, and I wouldn't recommend anyone act on it. But that entire argument is kind of crazy. Plus, Bateman emerges as enough of a sympathetic character that it is quite clear the filmmakers do not intend to indict him of anything. He is a Peter Pan character; that's the nuance. That's the confusion that leads him to an awkward moment with Juno. He needs to grow up. Having Juno inspire him would have been cheesy; this film is better than that.

Factually wrong?  He says something like "what did you think we were doing?" to Juno after: (A) he tells her the story of dancing with his hands on his prom date's ass in high school; (B) initiating with a "like this" by moving Juno's hands up to his neck and placing his hands on her hips; and then (C) the "what did you think we were doing?" line closed with Juno's dismissive response (and I think "dismissive" might be too lenient).

I'm not saying finding a high school girl attractive makes you a pervert, I am saying that the film-makers are suggesting it does - and that is one of the problems I have with the moralizing going on in the film. 

Another problem is this idea that Mark "needs to grow up" - this is the same kind of moralizing crap that Knocked Up feeds us.  The guy is an otherwise successful that works from home and wears tee-shirts, watches horror films, listens to music and seemingly harbors a desire to play in a band.  I realize the film-makers intend this to add up to "irresponsible" and I cry bullshit to this moralizing vision.

And this film is clearly not better than that - that is what it is :)
But I wish the public could, in the midst of its pleasures, see how blatantly it is being spoon-fed, and ask for slightly better dreams. 
                        - Iris Barry from "The Public's Pleasure" (1926)

Adam

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Re: Juno
« Reply #17 on: December 19, 2007, 11:20:56 PM »
The movie isn't suggesting he needs to grow up because of all those traits you mention... the movie is commending him for those traits. The movie is suggesting he needs to grow up because he absolutely doesn't know what he wants to do with himself. He got married and got deep into a process to become a father even though he didn't really want it, or the marriage. That's confusion and, yes, immaturity. It is not an indictment of him; he's a flawed person, and the movie respects that.

And yes, he sort of 'hits' on Juno... but that is a far, far cry from falling for her or putting the moves on her. It's one moment that goes nowhere and a manifestation of his general confusion with where he is at in his life.

Seriously, I think you are reaching to hate this movie.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2007, 11:23:23 PM by Adam »
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skjerva

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Re: Juno
« Reply #18 on: December 19, 2007, 11:33:00 PM »
It is not so much about Mark not knowing what he wants to do - it is fairly clear he wants to create music - he does it for a living and he wants to do it differently.  The film introduces him as a character that clearly does not want to be a father, in tension with the fact that he is in the process of becoming one through adoption - the film makes it clear from the beginning that this will be the conflict that needs to be addressed.  The film sets him up as a Fall Guy, and then slathers traits onto him.  It is these traits that are supposed to explain how it is he came to be in this situation of being married and going through with an adoption even though it is seemingly not working for him.  When Juno questions her father about love lasting and he says it is hard work, the implication is that Mark is the problem of "love not lasting" in the film.  Mark, and his ilk, are the social problem.

As far as the hitting on as the "moment that goes nowhere", it closes out his character, it is the culmination of all these other traits.  The next thing we learn is that he is moving to "a loft", something Vanessa (Garner) scoffs at, the implication being that the audience is also to find this unrealistic or childish.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2007, 02:15:48 PM by skjerva »
But I wish the public could, in the midst of its pleasures, see how blatantly it is being spoon-fed, and ask for slightly better dreams. 
                        - Iris Barry from "The Public's Pleasure" (1926)

Adam

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Re: Juno
« Reply #19 on: December 20, 2007, 12:07:29 AM »
Mark and his ilk are the social problem? I'll sit this one out; I don't know what that means.

As for Jen Garner's scoff... I must have missed the section of the film where we were told to fall in line with whatever her character believes and react accordingly. She scoffs because SHE thinks its immature and childish... and we scoff back, and laugh AT HER... at the irony because she's being immature and childish. The notion that Diablo Cody and Jason Reitman want us to scoff along with her there is an interpretation I find pretty much inconceivable.
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