Author Topic: Politics  (Read 206392 times)

pixote

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Re: Politics
« Reply #10 on: January 09, 2008, 02:03:18 PM »
This strikes me as sort of a weird year not to vote.  What kind of candidate are people waiting for?

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I think I'd love how awkward it'd be, or how awkward it should be.

sdedalus

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Re: Politics
« Reply #11 on: January 09, 2008, 02:09:34 PM »
It's much better to vote for a third party candidate you believe in. The higher voting percentages get, the more candidates have to play to voters' interests in addition to lobbies. Also, it may seem insignificant, but getting the 5% for a third party would really be a big deal, as we do not have the structure right now to easily move into a three or more party system.

George Bush couldn't agree more.
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skjerva

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Re: Politics
« Reply #12 on: January 09, 2008, 02:10:03 PM »
egads! That's the scariest thing I've heard. I'm a big proponent of voting, because in reality it is the only voice we have in government. Whether you think the candidate you like has a chance or choose to vote for the person you dislike least you are still sending a message that there are people out there that feel as you do.

No way!  Voting is the least effective voice.  </minor vanperbole>  Really, the US voting system is a joke - electoral college, gerrymandering, felony disenfranchisement, ballot errors, black box voting, plurality voting, exclusionary "debates", on and on and on.  If you want to get something done it needs to happen outside the voting booth!

void, don't worry about voting (that is a vote in itself).
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pixote

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Re: Politics
« Reply #13 on: January 09, 2008, 02:11:07 PM »
George Bush couldn't agree more.

Well, George W. Bush.  I believe H. W. has the opposite take.

pixote
I think I'd love how awkward it'd be, or how awkward it should be.

lise

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Re: Politics
« Reply #14 on: January 09, 2008, 02:14:52 PM »
I agree that voting isn't perfect here, but by not voting you are allowing yourself to be silenced... and it is by not voting that you allow others votes to count more within your state. The first time I voted for a governor the vote came down to the absentee ballots and were only separated by a few hundred in the end. The candidate I voted for won and I knew that my ballot had helped decide the outcome. I just don't understand and will never understand someone not choosing the have a voice.

I'm not saying it only happens inside the voting booth, but by choosing not to express yourself within one you are throwing up your hands, saying it won't matter anyway, and blaming a system you won't take part in restructuring.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2008, 02:17:18 PM by lise »
Strikeouts are boring - besides that, they're fascist.  Throw some ground balls.  More democratic.

sdedalus

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Re: Politics
« Reply #15 on: January 09, 2008, 02:18:03 PM »
George Bush couldn't agree more.

Well, George W. Bush.  I believe H. W. has the opposite take.


I know that's the traditional take on it, that Perot took votes from Bush, but I never did see it that way.  Bush and Perot didn't have anything in common.  I don't think there's any reason to think the proportion of the votes he got that would have gone to Bush would have been enough to overcome Clinton.

Ralph Nader, and all the people that voted for him (in Florida at least) can be proud of the decisive role they played in the 2000 election.
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sdedalus

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Re: Politics
« Reply #16 on: January 09, 2008, 02:20:48 PM »
I agree that voting isn't perfect here, but by not voting you are allowing yourself to be silenced... and it is by not voting that you allow others votes to count more within your state. The first time I voted for a governor the vote came down to the absentee ballots and were only separated by a few hundred in the end. The candidate I voted for won and I knew that my ballot had helped decide the outcome. I just don't understand and will never understand someone not choosing the have a voice.

I'm not saying it only happens inside the voting booth, but by choosing not to express yourself within one you are throwing up your hands, saying it won't matter anyway, and blaming a system you won't take part in restructuring.

I know my vote in the last Washington governor's election counted:

"The election for governor of the U.S. state of Washington in the year 2004 gained national attention for its legal twists and turns and its extremely close finish. . . . It is notable for being among the closest races in United States election history; the winner, Christine Gregoire, a Democrat, was elected after the third official count turned the election in her favor by a margin of 129 votes, or 0.0045%."   (wikipedia)
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pixote

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Re: Politics
« Reply #17 on: January 09, 2008, 02:23:55 PM »

On the importance of voting: it's also worth keeping in mind that the Presidential race isn't the only thing on the ballot...

I know my vote in the last Washington governor's election counted...

Ah, so you admit you helped cost that poor US attorney his job!

pixote
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sdedalus

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Re: Politics
« Reply #18 on: January 09, 2008, 02:27:01 PM »
Ah, so you admit you helped cost that poor US attorney his job!

Only if I get to claim that I helped cost Alberto Gonzalez his job.
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Re: Politics
« Reply #19 on: January 09, 2008, 02:29:57 PM »
egads! That's the scariest thing I've heard. I'm a big proponent of voting, because in reality it is the only voice we have in government. Whether you think the candidate you like has a chance or choose to vote for the person you dislike least you are still sending a message that there are people out there that feel as you do.

No way!  Voting is the least effective voice.  </minor vanperbole>  Really, the US voting system is a joke - electoral college, gerrymandering, felony disenfranchisement, ballot errors, black box voting, plurality voting, exclusionary "debates", on and on and on.  If you want to get something done it needs to happen outside the voting booth!

void, don't worry about voting (that is a vote in itself).
That's more or less true.

It's much better to vote for a third party candidate you believe in. The higher voting percentages get, the more candidates have to play to voters' interests in addition to lobbies. Also, it may seem insignificant, but getting the 5% for a third party would really be a big deal, as we do not have the structure right now to easily move into a three or more party system.

George Bush couldn't agree more.
Besides being inaccurate, how is not voting a better idea than voting third party?
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