Author Topic: Politics  (Read 205522 times)

facedad

  • Objectively Awesome
  • *****
  • Posts: 10983
  • World Phucking Champions.
    • Be my netflix friend
Re: Politics
« Reply #20 on: January 09, 2008, 02:31:38 PM »
George Bush couldn't agree more.

Well, George W. Bush.  I believe H. W. has the opposite take.


I know that's the traditional take on it, that Perot took votes from Bush, but I never did see it that way.  Bush and Perot didn't have anything in common.  I don't think there's any reason to think the proportion of the votes he got that would have gone to Bush would have been enough to overcome Clinton.

Ralph Nader, and all the people that voted for him (in Florida at least) can be proud of the decisive role they played in the 2000 election.
More registered Democrats in Florida voted for Bush than Nader, so I don't see your point.
You're just jealous! Nobody loves you because you're tiny and made of meat!

https://twitter.com/thefaceboy

http://www.thereelists.com

St. Martin the Bald

  • Lurker
  • Global Moderator
  • Objectively Awesome
  • *****
  • Posts: 10772
Re: Politics
« Reply #21 on: January 09, 2008, 02:34:33 PM »
Quote from: skjerva
No way!  Voting is the least effective voice.  </minor vanperbole>  Really, the US voting system is a joke - electoral college, gerrymandering, felony disenfranchisement, ballot errors, black box voting, plurality voting, exclusionary "debates", on and on and on.  If you want to get something done it needs to happen outside the voting booth!

void, don't worry about voting (that is a vote in itself).

Wrong - you are not going to have any measurable changes to the system through just spreading information and protesting. You need to be a part of the system to change it, from the inside - this would include voting your own people to office. There is very little permanent change you can affect without voting taking place somehow, someway.

Hey, nice marmot!

St. Martin the Bald

  • Lurker
  • Global Moderator
  • Objectively Awesome
  • *****
  • Posts: 10772
Re: Politics
« Reply #22 on: January 09, 2008, 02:39:43 PM »
I agree that voting isn't perfect here, but by not voting you are allowing yourself to be silenced... and it is by not voting that you allow others votes to count more within your state. The first time I voted for a governor the vote came down to the absentee ballots and were only separated by a few hundred in the end. The candidate I voted for won and I knew that my ballot had helped decide the outcome. I just don't understand and will never understand someone not choosing the have a voice.

I'm not saying it only happens inside the voting booth, but by choosing not to express yourself within one you are throwing up your hands, saying it won't matter anyway, and blaming a system you won't take part in restructuring.

  What she said - if we want to fix/change what is a very broken system then we need to be a part of it first and fix it from the inside. Voting is your responsibility - otherwise don't complain about what goes on in this country if you won't at least let your voice be heard.
Hey, nice marmot!

facedad

  • Objectively Awesome
  • *****
  • Posts: 10983
  • World Phucking Champions.
    • Be my netflix friend
Re: Politics
« Reply #23 on: January 09, 2008, 02:41:55 PM »
I agree that voting isn't perfect here, but by not voting you are allowing yourself to be silenced... and it is by not voting that you allow others votes to count more within your state. The first time I voted for a governor the vote came down to the absentee ballots and were only separated by a few hundred in the end. The candidate I voted for won and I knew that my ballot had helped decide the outcome. I just don't understand and will never understand someone not choosing the have a voice.

I'm not saying it only happens inside the voting booth, but by choosing not to express yourself within one you are throwing up your hands, saying it won't matter anyway, and blaming a system you won't take part in restructuring.

  What she said - if we want to fix/change what is a very broken system then we need to be a part of it first and fix it from the inside. Voting is your responsibility - otherwise don't complain about what goes on in this country if you won't at least let your voice be heard.
Voting for change is just a really slow, protracted process. Without a hell of a lot of foresight, it is hard to see it as effective. The system is ludicrous, but unless someone plans to find a way to dismantle it, there isn't a hell of a lot of choice.
You're just jealous! Nobody loves you because you're tiny and made of meat!

https://twitter.com/thefaceboy

http://www.thereelists.com

sdedalus

  • FAB
  • Objectively Awesome
  • *****
  • Posts: 16552
  • I have a prestigious blog, sir!
    • The End of Cinema
Re: Politics
« Reply #24 on: January 09, 2008, 02:43:06 PM »
Besides being inaccurate, how is not voting a better idea than voting third party?

If those are your only options, there's no difference.

But those aren't the only two options.
The End of Cinema

Seattle Screen Scene

"He was some kind of a man. What does it matter what you say about people?"

skjerva

  • Godfather
  • ******
  • Posts: 9448
  • I'm your audience.
Re: Politics
« Reply #25 on: January 09, 2008, 02:43:59 PM »
Quote from: skjerva
No way!  Voting is the least effective voice.  </minor vanperbole>  Really, the US voting system is a joke - electoral college, gerrymandering, felony disenfranchisement, ballot errors, black box voting, plurality voting, exclusionary "debates", on and on and on.  If you want to get something done it needs to happen outside the voting booth!

void, don't worry about voting (that is a vote in itself).

Wrong - you are not going to have any measurable changes to the system through just spreading information and protesting. You need to be a part of the system to change it, from the inside - this would include voting your own people to office. There is very little permanent change you can affect without voting taking place somehow, someway.



I think W's administration has made it clear that it does not care what the people, media, or even other parts of the administration want, instead making believe that there is no substantial opposition.

On "measurable change"?  What do you want changed?  Give me an example.  You think voting for Dude #1 is going to get that thing changed?  I suspect getting active and putting pressure on politicians/the bureaucracy is what actually makes change.  It is called "voting with your feet".  Most obviously, The Civil Rights Movement was about activism, not voting.  I'm not saying politicians in office don't matter, I am saying that if some issue matters to you, you are a fool to leave it up to casting a vote.
But I wish the public could, in the midst of its pleasures, see how blatantly it is being spoon-fed, and ask for slightly better dreams. 
                        - Iris Barry from "The Public's Pleasure" (1926)

St. Martin the Bald

  • Lurker
  • Global Moderator
  • Objectively Awesome
  • *****
  • Posts: 10772
Re: Politics
« Reply #26 on: January 09, 2008, 02:46:47 PM »
The only way we'll dismantle it is from the inside - short of armed insurrection - tell me how we will change an electoral process without some sort of legislative action?

It is a long slow process and that's probably why so many lose heart - forst remember that you need to win the hearts and minds of the majority of the citizens in this country first - most of whom have this mentality that we are the greatest coutry in the world and there is nothing wrong with us that a few well placed bombs in another country can't cure.
Hey, nice marmot!

sdedalus

  • FAB
  • Objectively Awesome
  • *****
  • Posts: 16552
  • I have a prestigious blog, sir!
    • The End of Cinema
Re: Politics
« Reply #27 on: January 09, 2008, 02:48:13 PM »
More registered Democrats in Florida voted for Bush than Nader, so I don't see your point.

So you don't think that the Nader vote was decisive?  He got 97,000 votes in an election decided by less than 600.

Registered democrats who voted for Bush are largely irrelevant.  Enough Nader voters would have backed Gore had they not bought into his nonsense rhetoric about there not being any real difference between the two parties.  If nothing else, I would hope the last 7 years would finally prove that wrong.
The End of Cinema

Seattle Screen Scene

"He was some kind of a man. What does it matter what you say about people?"

St. Martin the Bald

  • Lurker
  • Global Moderator
  • Objectively Awesome
  • *****
  • Posts: 10772
Re: Politics
« Reply #28 on: January 09, 2008, 02:48:46 PM »
Quote
Most obviously, The Civil Rights Movement was about activism, not voting.  I'm not saying politicians in office don't matter, I am saying that if some issue matters to you, you are a fool to leave it up to casting a vote.

 Correct me if I'm wrong - but the civil rights movement required a Constitutional amendment - legislative action - which requires elected officials - which requires your votes.
Hey, nice marmot!

Rene A. Moncivais

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 368
Re: Politics
« Reply #29 on: January 09, 2008, 02:49:33 PM »
I hate politics.  A lot.

Me too.  I doubt I'll be voting this year. 

In my country, it's illegal not to vote.

Voting is not a right, it's a responsibility.

I vote, but it seems like my vote doesn't matter, especially when I live in Texas and it always goes Republican.  Since I am liberal it doesn't matter too much here in Texas, at least to me. 

The thing that drives me crazy is it is all smear campaign here in the states.
"What about Oliver Stone?"

"Ummm, send him meat."

 

love