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Author Topic: Politics  (Read 267719 times)

jdc

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Re: Politics
« Reply #6980 on: February 25, 2021, 07:47:20 AM »
I know the law wouldn’t fly and it is a difficult law to have unless it is applied with an even hand. At the very least, organisations have to consider their liability for the decisions for their knee jerk reaction as eventually pay in in the courts.
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“The direct use of physical force is so poor a solution to the problem of limited resources that it is commonly employed only by small children and great nations” - David Friedman

Eric/E.T.

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Re: Politics
« Reply #6981 on: February 25, 2021, 07:29:33 PM »
The maintenance of harmony between different groups will always advantage the dominant culture and disadvantage minority cultures.
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Bondo

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Re: Politics
« Reply #6982 on: February 25, 2021, 07:56:25 PM »
Is that meant as a continuation of the conversation or a new topic, because I’m not clear on how it applies to the Smith College story.

Eric/E.T.

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Re: Politics
« Reply #6983 on: February 25, 2021, 10:25:34 PM »
I just read this:

The law here would make her post difficult, especially if the circumstance seems quite reasonable for her to be questioned...

https://sso.agc.gov.sg/Act/PC1871?ProvIds=pr298A-

Promoting enmity between different groups on grounds of religion or race and doing acts prejudicial to maintenance of harmony
298A.  Whoever —
(a)   by words, either spoken or written, or by signs or by visible representations or otherwise, knowingly promotes or attempts to promote, on grounds of religion or race, disharmony or feelings of enmity, hatred or ill-will between different religious or racial groups; or
(b)   commits any act which he knows is prejudicial to the maintenance of harmony between different religious or racial groups and which disturbs or is likely to disturb the public tranquility,
shall be punished with imprisonment for a term which may extend to 3 years, or with fine, or with both.

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jdc

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Re: Politics
« Reply #6984 on: February 25, 2021, 10:27:18 PM »
The maintenance of harmony between different groups will always advantage the dominant culture and disadvantage minority cultures.

Perhaps but enforcing the policy with an even hand is the only way to ensure stababilty in such a place that has a very wide mix of races and religions.  Another policy (contrary to what they are setting in the story) is not allowing any segragated housing. In a country that has 80+% of the population living in a form of government subsidies housing, such housing blocks and neighbourhoods are required to maintain a balance of different races.
"Beer. Now there's a temporary solution."  Homer S.
“The direct use of physical force is so poor a solution to the problem of limited resources that it is commonly employed only by small children and great nations” - David Friedman

jdc

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Re: Politics
« Reply #6985 on: February 26, 2021, 01:30:40 AM »
Would like someone to read this story and explain to me why the student shouldn't be expelled for defaming the working-class employees of her college.

Not in the way you are asking.. but

A simple reason is that then the University has to admit to being negligent to they way they treated their employees if they were to take action on the student now.  One thing you would hope for an organisation that you spent 35 years working for is that they would stand up and give you the benefit of the doubt and do proper DD before drawing any conclusions. But they automatically too a position which threw their own employees under the bus

I do wonder if this reactionary fear is going to erode the higher eduction in the US, not sure if it similar in Europe.

"Beer. Now there's a temporary solution."  Homer S.
“The direct use of physical force is so poor a solution to the problem of limited resources that it is commonly employed only by small children and great nations” - David Friedman

Bondo

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Re: Politics
« Reply #6986 on: February 26, 2021, 05:35:03 AM »
I think the PCU type issues are more private liberal arts college issues and not as present at public colleges that educate 75% of students.

ET, I certainly agree that a law like that would probably not be applied equally and would be used to stifle minority critique of majority cultures.

Bondo

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Re: Politics
« Reply #6987 on: April 09, 2021, 06:30:48 PM »
Should minimum wage cover living expenses? Have you supported yourself solely on income from a minimum wage? Additionally, have you supported yourself solely on income from minimum wage with a job that is only temporary or seasonal?

No, I've never supported myself solely on income from minimum wage. I have supported myself, quite comfortably, on a $16/hr job. I've addressed your first, broader question recently. I don't think a minimum wage should necessarily cover living expenses. I think there is a point where increasing the minimum wage to ensure a living wage would be counterproductive, between reduction in employment (and minimum wages do nothing for people without jobs) and increased costs, more on which later, and so socially we'd be better with improved EITC/Child Allowance that provides some level of benefits without an income requirement. And you pay for that with progressive taxes.

Also, Amazon is good? What planet are we on?

I'm on a planet where poor people are not just laborers but also consumers. Walmart and Amazon are great for low-income consumers (and to be honest, for laborers in comparison to small businesses). They have used scale to achieve great efficiencies and bring/keep prices low on a lot of products consumed by low-income individuals, boosting their quality of life. As per the above, if you hit a point of minimum wage hike that really starts hitting prices, that starts to look like a regressive tax hike. It's the conundrum with our agricultural labor too. If we had a $15/hr minimum wage and strictly enforced immigration, the cost of food would skyrocket and make people at the bottom worse off. That may not justify the pay or conditions that migrant farm workers live in, but it is at least something to keep in mind. Also worth keeping in mind is that the conditions migrant farm workers live in are still arguably better than in their home countries. See also concerns about sweatshops overseas...not something we should completely ignore, but if the alternative is no jobs, just subsistence farming, you've made their lives worse by trying to make their lives better.

jdc

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Re: Politics
« Reply #6988 on: April 09, 2021, 07:52:12 PM »
Should nurses get high salaries because the job is difficult or because healthcare is a billion dollar industry? If the former then factory workers should be paid higher, if the latter then factory workers should be paid higher. What’s your reasoning, Bondo?

Classical economics may have simplified a thing or two and assumed too much around rational behaviour that behaviour economics later tries to address.  But supply and demand basically hold true and is not different when looking at it from a capitalist economy or socialist economy or raw material or humans. We don’t break the basic law or theory just due to who we are.

It is not really a matter if nurses should get higher pay as much as why they get higher.  It is a job that requires a lot more training and is more difficult to perform.  When you start expanding to factory workers, fast food, warehouse, etc, the pool of available workers is much higher. As well as the choice of location is much more broad. A factory can be moved anywhere to ensure there is a large pool of labour or even could be put somewhere remote and likely the labour would come to it if it made economic sense. Basically, you need nurses all over as patients to migrate for healthcare.

Should minimum wage cover living expenses? Have you supported yourself solely on income from a minimum wage? Additionally, have you supported yourself solely on income from minimum wage with a job that is only temporary or seasonal?

These workers are absolutely essential. Yes, a lot of people can do it but a lot of people can do a lot of things.

Setting such arbitrary prices doesn’t optimise what is likely to be the best outcome overall.  Maybe a living wage will be too high for companies to make investments in certain areas or want to hire works to perform certain functions.  Maybe the jobs just move somewhere a living wage is a lot less or investments just move to have robots to perform the work and removes a lot of young people from learning what it is like to work and earning a wage.

I have basically been working since I was 13** (1982)  except for a few of my university semesters and about 9 months of unemployment back in 2017.  So I have done many temp jobs and min wage jobs but no, would not have been able to live on them. Probably the first job that I could support myself was at $10 per hour, not sure you could call it comfortable though. I often shared places with a few friends, slept on floors or couches, almost never ate out, drank the cheapest, generic beer, etc.   But they were great times.

Creating artificial price controls will always have unintended consequences, not usually for the better.  High rent may seem unfair for people needing a place to live but imposing rent controls never solves that issue and only creates a shortage of housing. 

If the requirement is for everybody needs to earn a livable wage, then something like a UBI is likely the only solution as the minimum wage is always going to be 0.

I am actually not opposed to UBI, though I do think it should be in place of all sorts of other programs out there.


** various work before started professional career ... deliver newspapers, janitor/yard maintenance for church, fast food, gas station clerk, lots of temp jobs like inventory counting or data entry, co-oping during college as accounting clerk, Kinko’s night shift
"Beer. Now there's a temporary solution."  Homer S.
“The direct use of physical force is so poor a solution to the problem of limited resources that it is commonly employed only by small children and great nations” - David Friedman

Bondo

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Re: Politics
« Reply #6989 on: April 09, 2021, 08:19:03 PM »
I think it is largely justified, but another factor with nurses is there is a licensure process. Any time you have licensing requirements for a field, you will limit supply and boost wages. Sometimes this is legitimate in the public interest and sometimes it isn't. You obviously don't want doctors who didn't go to med school. On the other hand, there are things nurses could do but aren't allowed because doctors are protecting their turf. Lawyers/paralegals have some of the same dynamic (paralegals aren't generally licensed, unlike nurses, but there is some push in that direction in exchange for greater responsibilities). But you get to things like hair stylists and while there are risks with certain chemical hair treatments, it is likely unnecessary.

Unions, when doing it badly, do a bit of this too. Unions that use strict seniority systems, or put in place systems where you can't get rid of bad members of the union, are actively harmful. They keep people from entering those fields.

 

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