Author Topic: Politics  (Read 511181 times)

St. Martin the Bald

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Re: US Elections 2008 Edition
« Reply #580 on: October 10, 2008, 08:12:37 AM »
Received my absentee ballot in the mail today. Still very undecided, and very disappointed about the absence of Ron Paul's name on it.

How can you be undecided mouse?
McCain does not have the temperament needed to run this country - he has resorted to the worst kind of campaigning in desperation. Be bold - pick an unknown over a known Bush supporter.
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jbissell

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Re: US Elections 2008 Edition
« Reply #581 on: October 10, 2008, 09:15:20 AM »

How can you be undecided mouse?


Just because you are undecided doesn't automatically mean you are choosing between Obama and McCain.  Living in Illinois (where Obama doesn't need any help), I'm pretty tempted to vote for Nader just to give a third party some support.

St. Martin the Bald

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Re: US Elections 2008 Edition
« Reply #582 on: October 10, 2008, 10:34:27 AM »

How can you be undecided mouse?


Just because you are undecided doesn't automatically mean you are choosing between Obama and McCain.  Living in Illinois (where Obama doesn't need any help), I'm pretty tempted to vote for Nader just to give a third party some support.

That (IMO) is ridiculous - Nader doesn't stand a chance in hell of winning and if you believe in any sort of way that this country needs change then you are simply wasting a vote in Nader. Make it count for something. Voting for Nader is like not voting at all - it's simply a cop out for making a true decision. I mean - define what you mean by "third party support" - what does it gain for this third party?
Do you really think Ralph Nader would make a good president?
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¡Keith!

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Re: US Elections 2008 Edition
« Reply #583 on: October 10, 2008, 11:10:27 AM »

How can you be undecided mouse?


Just because you are undecided doesn't automatically mean you are choosing between Obama and McCain.  Living in Illinois (where Obama doesn't need any help), I'm pretty tempted to vote for Nader just to give a third party some support.

That (IMO) is ridiculous - Nader doesn't stand a chance in hell of winning and if you believe in any sort of way that this country needs change then you are simply wasting a vote in Nader. Make it count for something. Voting for Nader is like not voting at all - it's simply a cop out for making a true decision. I mean - define what you mean by "third party support" - what does it gain for this third party?
Do you really think Ralph Nader would make a good president?

the change we need is away from these two puppets - neither of them will bring anything new to the table I fear but their standard baggage. 

jbissell

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Re: US Elections 2008 Edition
« Reply #584 on: October 10, 2008, 11:10:45 AM »

How can you be undecided mouse?


Just because you are undecided doesn't automatically mean you are choosing between Obama and McCain.  Living in Illinois (where Obama doesn't need any help), I'm pretty tempted to vote for Nader just to give a third party some support.

That (IMO) is ridiculous - Nader doesn't stand a chance in hell of winning and if you believe in any sort of way that this country needs change then you are simply wasting a vote in Nader. Make it count for something. Voting for Nader is like not voting at all - it's simply a cop out for making a true decision. I mean - define what you mean by "third party support" - what does it gain for this third party?
Do you really think Ralph Nader would make a good president?

Saying that voting for a third party candidate is like not voting at all is arrogant and the reason why this country will never get away from a two party system.  Even if you vote for someone that has no chance at winning, if you believe they are the best candidate for the job it's not a cop out.  Simply resigning yourself to the fact that you have to choose between two options is absurd.  Regarding Nader & Barr & Paul and the rest of the small candidates, I don't see how having more options is a bad thing.  Voting for them is not like voting for my uncle or Mickey Mouse.

When I said third party support, I meant in regards to a third party receiving recognition once it gets over a certain percentage of votes (I think it's like 5 or 10% depending on the state).  I think Ralph Nader wouldn't be any worse than what we've had lately and I'd prefer him over McCain (I know there is plenty of ill-will directed at him after 2000 but I never bought into that "a vote for Nader is a vote for Bush" line of logic).  All of this being said, I probably won't actually vote for him but I don't think it's as ridiculous a notion as both parties like to make it seem.

St. Martin the Bald

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Re: US Elections 2008 Edition
« Reply #585 on: October 10, 2008, 11:16:49 AM »
I think the 2 party system is screwed for sure and I don't mean to sound arrogant but the only way you can truly affect change in this current political climate is to work from within. I think the only way you will find a legitimate third party is when you get a splinter group from one of the 2 big ones. Hopefully this group will contain enough proponents of change and a desire to break the two party system that they will be successfull - this has to a willful attempt to break the stranglehold the elephants and donkeys have on the gateways to a political career. Money will be the key - setting up a grassroots movement that will generate enough cash to make a 3rd party viable.

I believe that the best way to do this is from the inside.
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¡Keith!

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Re: US Elections 2008 Edition
« Reply #586 on: October 10, 2008, 11:19:06 AM »
I think the 2 party system is screwed for sure and I don't mean to sound arrogant but the only way you can truly affect change in this current political climate is to work from within. I think the only way you will find a legitimate third party is when you get a splinter group from one of the 2 big ones. Hopefully this group will contain enough proponents of change and a desire to break the two party system that they will be successfull - this has to a willful attempt to break the stranglehold the elephants and donkeys have on the gateways to a political career. Money will be the key - setting up a grassroots movement that will generate enough cash to make a 3rd party viable.

I believe that the best way to do this is from the inside.

Joe Lieberman for President!

jbissell

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Re: US Elections 2008 Edition
« Reply #587 on: October 10, 2008, 11:19:46 AM »
I should also add that if I lived in a swing state or a heavily red state, I wouldn't even consider a third party option. I think it's safe to say that Obama would do just fine in Illinois with or without my support (because let's face it, if he can't win Illinois by a wide margin, he's doing something really wrong).

An unrelated question for you Martin.  How do you feel about all of the last minute attempts to dredge up all the Ayers and ACORN dirt? Do you think it will be effective in making the undecided voter think twice about Obama and the company he keeps (obviously this is a drum being beat heavily by Fox News and I haven't seen it mentioned too much on the other news sources)?

jbissell

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Re: US Elections 2008 Edition
« Reply #588 on: October 10, 2008, 11:21:14 AM »
I think the 2 party system is screwed for sure and I don't mean to sound arrogant but the only way you can truly affect change in this current political climate is to work from within. I think the only way you will find a legitimate third party is when you get a splinter group from one of the 2 big ones. Hopefully this group will contain enough proponents of change and a desire to break the two party system that they will be successfull - this has to a willful attempt to break the stranglehold the elephants and donkeys have on the gateways to a political career. Money will be the key - setting up a grassroots movement that will generate enough cash to make a 3rd party viable.

I believe that the best way to do this is from the inside.

Alright, I like this response a lot more than your first one (and I'm inclined to agree with you).

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Re: US Elections 2008 Edition
« Reply #589 on: October 10, 2008, 11:23:57 AM »
Any scientist will tell you that bi-polar systems are inherently unstable.
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