Author Topic: Politics  (Read 511092 times)

sdedalus

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Re: Politics
« Reply #50 on: January 09, 2008, 03:14:32 PM »
I was realistically pointing to both. While the mistakes were of note, it is much worse when a party can't win it's own devotees. There's never an excuse for a party to lose it's registered voters.

I think a lot of that is an artifact of the Reagan years, when Southern white Democrats started voting Republican.  They likely never bothered to change their registration.
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facedad

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Re: Politics
« Reply #51 on: January 09, 2008, 03:15:11 PM »
sean, i believe the "democratic votes for bush" face was talking about is referring to the issue of faulty ballots.

Ah, well there's not anything we can do about that now (except, of course, reform the electoral system, but we have to elect people to do that).  The people who voted for Nader can, however, rethink their positions and make a better choice next time.

well, as this discussion is pointing out, people have different beliefs about voting. 

KUCINICH!!!
also, polling is kind of a drag on the whole process the way it sells the idea that there are only one or two worthwhile choices to be made.  i liked that in NH last night BO was way ahead in the polls, one of the commentators made the astute observation that polled people probably wanted to come off enlightened enough to vote for <shhh>a black</shhh>, but when nobody was looking...


ps - 6 new messages while i wrote that, i'm not going back, hoping it isn't obvious...
Ah Kucinich, the only vegan choice.
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facedad

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Re: Politics
« Reply #52 on: January 09, 2008, 03:16:46 PM »
I was realistically pointing to both. While the mistakes were of note, it is much worse when a party can't win it's own devotees. There's never an excuse for a party to lose it's registered voters.

I think a lot of that is an artifact of the Reagan years, when Southern white Democrats started voting Republican.  They likely never bothered to change their registration.
I can see why you'd think that, but because of the mobilization of Southern Republicans in the last 10 years, I severely doubt they would choose not to vote in the Republican primaries by being too lazy to reregister. Even if you were going to argue subterfuge, I doubt they would want to leave their candidate to chance.
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sdedalus

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Re: Politics
« Reply #53 on: January 09, 2008, 03:16:55 PM »
sean, i believe the "democratic votes for bush" face was talking about is referring to the issue of faulty ballots.

Ah, well there's not anything we can do about that now (except, of course, reform the electoral system, but we have to elect people to do that).  The people who voted for Nader can, however, rethink their positions and make a better choice next time.

well, as this discussion is pointing out, people have different beliefs about voting. 

KUCINICH!!!

also, polling is kind of a drag on the whole process the way it sells the idea that there are only one or two worthwhile choices to be made.  i liked that in NH last night BO was way ahead in the polls, one of the commentators made the astute observation that polled people probably wanted to come off enlightened enough to vote for <shhh>a black</shhh>, but when nobody was looking...


ps - 6 new messages while i wrote that, i'm not going back, hoping it isn't obvious...

I like Kucinich a lot, but I like even more that he told his supporters to support Obama when they didn't have the minimum amount of support in the Iowa caucus.
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sdedalus

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Re: Politics
« Reply #54 on: January 09, 2008, 03:20:21 PM »
I was realistically pointing to both. While the mistakes were of note, it is much worse when a party can't win it's own devotees. There's never an excuse for a party to lose it's registered voters.

I think a lot of that is an artifact of the Reagan years, when Southern white Democrats started voting Republican.  They likely never bothered to change their registration.
I can see why you'd think that, but because of the mobilization of Southern Republicans in the last 10 years, I severely doubt they would choose not to vote in the Republican primaries by being too lazy to reregister. Even if you were going to argue subterfuge, I doubt they would want to leave their candidate to chance.

If they're politically engaged enough to vote in the primaries (which most people aren't) then they'd be motivated to change their registration.  I don't know if Florida is an open or closed primary, but that would make a difference as well.
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skjerva

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Re: Politics
« Reply #55 on: January 09, 2008, 03:20:38 PM »

I used to believe all that stuff too.  My vote didn't matter, they're all corrupt, the system needs to be radically restructured and taking part in it is a necessary validation of that evil.  The 2000 election and the Iraq war changed my mind.  Add to that John Roberts and Samuel Alito, and I don't see how any responsible lefty can refuse to engage with the system.
Who said my vote doesn't matter, I didn't.

That would be the parallel discussion with skerjva, who is encouraging thevoid not to vote because it's only outside action that matters.


sean, you have once again misread what i wrote.  first, i disagreed with lise for writing "voting is the only voice we have in government" - this is nonsense, we have all sorts of voices in government.  Second, i told void not to worry about his tossing out doubt about voting this year.  that is his decision, i support that.
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St. Martin the Bald

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Re: Politics
« Reply #56 on: January 09, 2008, 03:21:50 PM »
I lived in Cleveland when he was mayor - duriing the Muny Power scandal - I was glad to see that history proved him right. I would love to see Kucinich in office but since mainstream media will not give him the time of day that will never happen.
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skjerva

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Re: Politics
« Reply #57 on: January 09, 2008, 03:22:26 PM »
sean, didn't mean to sound mean at you :)
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facedad

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Re: Politics
« Reply #58 on: January 09, 2008, 03:23:05 PM »
sean, i believe the "democratic votes for bush" face was talking about is referring to the issue of faulty ballots.

Ah, well there's not anything we can do about that now (except, of course, reform the electoral system, but we have to elect people to do that).  The people who voted for Nader can, however, rethink their positions and make a better choice next time.

well, as this discussion is pointing out, people have different beliefs about voting. 

KUCINICH!!!

also, polling is kind of a drag on the whole process the way it sells the idea that there are only one or two worthwhile choices to be made.  i liked that in NH last night BO was way ahead in the polls, one of the commentators made the astute observation that polled people probably wanted to come off enlightened enough to vote for <shhh>a black</shhh>, but when nobody was looking...


ps - 6 new messages while i wrote that, i'm not going back, hoping it isn't obvious...

I like Kucinich a lot, but I like even more that he told his supporters to support Obama when they didn't have the minimum amount of support in the Iowa caucus.
I wouldn't be surprised if he is of the opinion that minor, gradual change is worth supporting. Obama isn't totally differing from Kucinich, but he is vastly more moderate and Dennis is a far better choice. Hopefully he's pushing for the second banana on the ticket (not that he'd get that either).
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facedad

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Re: Politics
« Reply #59 on: January 09, 2008, 03:24:12 PM »
I was realistically pointing to both. While the mistakes were of note, it is much worse when a party can't win it's own devotees. There's never an excuse for a party to lose it's registered voters.

I think a lot of that is an artifact of the Reagan years, when Southern white Democrats started voting Republican.  They likely never bothered to change their registration.
I can see why you'd think that, but because of the mobilization of Southern Republicans in the last 10 years, I severely doubt they would choose not to vote in the Republican primaries by being too lazy to reregister. Even if you were going to argue subterfuge, I doubt they would want to leave their candidate to chance.

If they're politically engaged enough to vote in the primaries (which most people aren't) then they'd be motivated to change their registration.  I don't know if Florida is an open or closed primary, but that would make a difference as well.
If I remember correctly they are closed, but I'm not doing the research.
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