Author Topic: 1960s World Cinema: Mother Joan of the Angels (1961, Poland)  (Read 12122 times)

duder

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Re: 1960s World Cinema: Mother Joan of the Angels (1961, Poland)
« Reply #20 on: April 29, 2008, 08:03:31 PM »
I feel like we may start to have grounds for claiming this film to have significant influence, if we can prove it was seen.

It's interesting that both The Exorcist and Bug are William Friedkin films but both are adapted from previously written material (William Peter Blatty wrote The Exorcist, the novel and Tracy Letts wrote Bug, the play).

Also, you should see Bug.
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sdedalus

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Re: 1960s World Cinema: Mother Joan of the Angels (1961, Poland)
« Reply #21 on: May 01, 2008, 03:21:55 AM »
I thought it was pretty good, though I didn't love it the way faceboy did.

I liked the facing the camera shots, linked as well with the tracking subjective shots, clearly implicating us in the action.  Also, in addition to the emptiness of the sets are the emptiness of the frames, with Joseph, for example, almost always isolated in the frame.  This is masterful in what I think is the second best scene in the film (and what has gone unmentioned thus far): the confrontation between Joseph and the Rabbi, with Mieczyslaw Voit playing both characters.  Audacious and darkly funny (dark humor being a Polish specialty) considering the conclusion of the scene.

Interesting that you would attempt an anti-communist reading of it, face, considering the director collaborated with the anti-Solidarity government in advocating the suppression of anti-Communist films by Wajda and others.
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facedad

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Re: 1960s World Cinema: Mother Joan of the Angels (1961, Poland)
« Reply #22 on: May 01, 2008, 10:18:33 AM »
I thought it was pretty good, though I didn't love it the way faceboy did.

I liked the facing the camera shots, linked as well with the tracking subjective shots, clearly implicating us in the action.  Also, in addition to the emptiness of the sets are the emptiness of the frames, with Joseph, for example, almost always isolated in the frame.  This is masterful in what I think is the second best scene in the film (and what has gone unmentioned thus far): the confrontation between Joseph and the Rabbi, with Mieczyslaw Voit playing both characters.  Audacious and darkly funny (dark humor being a Polish specialty) considering the conclusion of the scene.

Interesting that you would attempt an anti-communist reading of it, face, considering the director collaborated with the anti-Solidarity government in advocating the suppression of anti-Communist films by Wajda and others.
Yeah, but he didn't become the Polish Kazan until the early 80s, over 20 years later. I just chalked it up to 20 years of pressure from the government. He was in a high level of power that whole time, and I think we can safely assume such pressure.

I agree that the scene with the Rabbi was everything you say it was.

I'm frankly surprised you didn't have the same love for the ending that I did.
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sdedalus

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Re: 1960s World Cinema: Mother Joan of the Angels (1961, Poland)
« Reply #23 on: May 01, 2008, 11:51:30 AM »
I think you see it as heroic and moving, whereas I see it as ironic, atheistic black humor.

Which I think is clever, but can't really love.
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facedad

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Re: 1960s World Cinema: Mother Joan of the Angels (1961, Poland)
« Reply #24 on: May 01, 2008, 12:21:58 PM »
I think you see it as heroic and moving, whereas I see it as ironic, atheistic black humor.

Which I think is clever, but can't really love.
I don't think one reading negates the other and both are there. It's odd because I'd never be considered faithful, but my reading would make you think I am.

So you can't love atheistic black humor?
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sdedalus

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Re: 1960s World Cinema: Mother Joan of the Angels (1961, Poland)
« Reply #25 on: May 01, 2008, 12:31:36 PM »
If you think the film is atheist, then Joseph's actions are either very funny or very, very sick and disturbing, but I don't think they can be seen as heroic.

Maybe I'm getting less cynical as I get older, but I'd take the unironic Black Narcissus over Mother Joan as far as crazy nun movies go.
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pixote

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Re: 1960s World Cinema: Mother Joan of the Angels (1961, Poland)
« Reply #26 on: May 12, 2008, 07:32:26 PM »
Sorry to have been away when this thread exploded with activity.  Some catch-up thoughts...

Once inside, the visual allusions to Dreyer and particularly Cocteau really connected with me and made the convent real in the sense that it helped me believe in what was happening.

I expected to be reminded of Dreyer and Bergman, but the one film I kept thinking of while watching (especially early on) was Jean Epstein's version of The Fall of the House of Usher.  There might be nothing to this reference — I honestly don't remember Epstein's film much at all — but many, many elements in Mother Joan triggered that connection in the back of my mind somewhere.  Has anyone seen The Fall of the House of Usher recently?  Is there anything to my free association?

It's also interesting that you called it a realist film and to an extent I agree. The film is more firmly assured in the reality of the world it creates and stays as far away from non-camera/non-lighting effects as it can.

I want to say it's realism by way of impressionism, but I'm not sure if that's true, if it even means anything, or if it just sounds sort of cool.

This is masterful in what I think is the second best scene in the film (and what has gone unmentioned thus far): the confrontation between Joseph and the Rabbi, with Mieczyslaw Voit playing both characters.  Audacious and darkly funny (dark humor being a Polish specialty) considering the conclusion of the scene.

I've been meaning to post about that scene because, on one viewing, it's the one scene in the movie that didn't quite work for me.  Partly I was just distracted in trying to determine whether it was the same actor in both roles.  The technical difficulty in filming one actor in both roles really enhanced the disjointed nature of the scene — but I felt like it went too far in that, having so little rhythm that it just felt sloppy.  Also, the shift in aesthetics in the scene didn't sit well with me either; it felt very stagy in a nonrealistic way, something reflected in the dialogue that, in the context of the rest of the film, seemed overwritten.

All that said, in watching the scene, I felt like it'd all work perfectly for me on a second viewing ... maybe just because the filmmakers had earned my trust by that point.

I'm frankly surprised you didn't have the same love for the ending that I did.
If you think the film is atheist, then Joseph's actions are either very funny or very, very sick and disturbing, but I don't think they can be seen as heroic.

Hmm ... trying to remember how I read the ending.  I think I read it as tragic more than anything else ... perpetuating a cycle of good and evil that these isolated characters seem powerless to break.  Or maybe I just made that up.  Also, I didn't notice any signifiers that film was atheistic.  I want to say that the film concerned itself with the limitations of religion but not the limitations of faith (if that's a distinction you accept) ... but, again, I could just be making that up.

To clarify — since this has been the most wishy-washy post ever — I really liked this movie and can't wait to watch it again.

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facedad

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Re: 1960s World Cinema: Mother Joan of the Angels (1961, Poland)
« Reply #27 on: May 12, 2008, 08:37:59 PM »
Sorry to have been away when this thread exploded with activity.  Some catch-up thoughts...

Once inside, the visual allusions to Dreyer and particularly Cocteau really connected with me and made the convent real in the sense that it helped me believe in what was happening.

I expected to be reminded of Dreyer and Bergman, but the one film I kept thinking of while watching (especially early on) was Jean Epstein's version of The Fall of the House of Usher.  There might be nothing to this reference — I honestly don't remember Epstein's film much at all — but many, many elements in Mother Joan triggered that connection in the back of my mind somewhere.  Has anyone seen The Fall of the House of Usher recently?  Is there anything to my free association?

Hey look, research materials!
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Re: 1960s World Cinema: Mother Joan of the Angels (1961, Poland)
« Reply #28 on: May 12, 2008, 10:35:24 PM »
The Fall of the House of Usher

Can someone watch this for me and report back?  Watching movies on the internets makes me feel all icky.

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facedad

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Re: 1960s World Cinema: Mother Joan of the Angels (1961, Poland)
« Reply #29 on: May 12, 2008, 10:36:41 PM »
And if you do, ignore the horrible production credits at the beginning.
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