Poll

What Style of Animation is your Favorite?

Western Traditional  (Fantasia, Lion King)
8 (23.5%)
Japanese Anime  (Akira, Spirited Away)
9 (26.5%)
Computer Animation  (Toy Story, WALL-E)
6 (17.6%)
Modern Stylized  (Simpsons, Beavis and Butthead, South Park)
1 (2.9%)
Claymation (Wallace and Gromit)
5 (14.7%)
Motion Capture  (Polar Express, Beowulf)
0 (0%)
Other
3 (8.8%)
None
2 (5.9%)

Total Members Voted: 34

Author Topic: Favorite Type of Animation and Future of the Artform Thread  (Read 3905 times)

gateway

  • Elite Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1621
  • Boom De Ah Da.
Re: Favorite Type of Animation and Future of the Artform Thread
« Reply #10 on: July 06, 2008, 06:07:25 PM »

By the way, I voted 'None.'  My favorite type of animation is whatever style is best for the story being told.


Agreed. I really can't think of movies like Princess Mononoke, Finding Nemo or The Nightmare Before Christmas being done in any other style than their original creation (though there are exceptions, I think Ratatouille actually would have been interesting if done in classical western animation).

What I've noticed is that there seems to be a lot of blending between traditional western animation and Japanese anime recently, mostly in television (the show Avatar is the best example I can think of). While computer animation is definitely predominant now, I think those still working in more traditional mediums will increasingly move towards this hybrid style.
"I hope someday to be rich enough to smoke giant cigars while cackling maniacally."
- Nathan Rabin (echoing my thoughts exactly)

spooncivicR

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 103
  • Goodnight Julia...
    • My Blog
Re: Favorite Type of Animation and Future of the Artform Thread
« Reply #11 on: July 07, 2008, 01:05:15 AM »
I would have voted none except I have a passionate dislike for nearly all anime (there are some notable exceptions) and since I prefer 2D animation to 3D purely from an artistic perspective I had to vote Western Animation.

Mind elaborating why you hate anime?  Is it just cause most of it is crap (excluding Ghibli and a few great action flicks)?  Or do you have a problem with the actual look of the anime?

It is mostly that much of the anime out there is pure garbage. But I also generally can't stand the style of stoytelling. There seems to be an idea within the anime community that the more complex and incoherent a plot is the better it is. I call bullsh8t on that. I also sometimes have a problem with the animation style itself, but not generally. Usually when I have a problem with the animation its a particularly bad anime where the style appears to come from the artists being lazy. I do question though, why is it that most anime seems to have a single style of art and animation. It's like you could pop a character out of any anime film and put them in another and nobody would notice that the art on that character was not from that film. Even western traditional animation is generally varied greatly from film to film. And if you don't believe me then try to do what I said about exchanging characters between any two Disney films and youll see just how varied the styles are.

Just to stick up for anime a little I would like to point out that most of everything (movies, books, television, ect) is garbage.  You should not hold Home on the Range against Fantasia and likewise drivel like Odin does not diminish the greatness of Mind Game.  I am not saying you have to like anime but, if you want to concentrate on the worst of anything it is going to be awful.  I would have liked that poll to include European/Russian animation as a choice but whatever.   

Now someone needs to justify the use of MoCap for anything...
Whatever Happens, Happens

Letterboxd

Tequila

  • Objectively Awesome
  • *****
  • Posts: 11094
Re: Favorite Type of Animation and Future of the Artform Thread
« Reply #12 on: July 07, 2008, 02:13:12 AM »
Yeah, especially considering that Anime as a style is put to a much broader use than Western Animation and has a much higher output, I don't think that's exactly fair. Just imagine Pixar would produce 20% of all Hollywood films, there's bound to be some lesser work there (and that's not even counting TV, where most of the real bad stuff comes from).
'What am I doing? I'm quietly judging you'
http://letterboxd.com/Tagave/

Think_Long

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 877
Re: Favorite Type of Animation and Future of the Artform Thread
« Reply #13 on: July 07, 2008, 09:24:30 AM »
I also think that a lot of "Western" and "Eastern" animation techniques are blending together.  I also hesitate to classify any of the Ghibli work as anime per se, because I think each film owes so much to the director.  We can always tell a Takahata or a Miyazaki film, and I don't know if we'd call them an anime style if they weren't from Japan.

Speaking of the blending of styles, does anyone remember the trend around the turn of this century when western companies were jumping on to the anime bandwagon, thanks to pokemon? I can't think of any specific shows at the moment really, but from what I've seen of the new spiderman cartoon, it is definitely cribbing on the anime style.  also, wasn't there a re-hashed looney toons with creepy anime bugs and daffy?

FroHam X

  • Objectively Awesome
  • *****
  • Posts: 17792
  • “By any seeds necessary.”
    • justAtad
Re: Favorite Type of Animation and Future of the Artform Thread
« Reply #14 on: July 07, 2008, 12:40:28 PM »
I also think that a lot of "Western" and "Eastern" animation techniques are blending together.  I also hesitate to classify any of the Ghibli work as anime per se, because I think each film owes so much to the director.  We can always tell a Takahata or a Miyazaki film, and I don't know if we'd call them an anime style if they weren't from Japan.

See. This is where I stand. I don't consider Miyazaki as an anime filmmaker. He does his own unique films with their own unique style that is influenced by anime, but clearly infleunced by classic western animation. I tend to be more annoyed by conventional anime. As I said, there are notable exceptions within anime, but I think most, if not all, of those exceptions are cases where the filmmaker is trying to do something different from every other anime out there. And in all of those cases (Miyazaki, for example) there tends to be a strong narrative or story being told.
"We didn't clean the hamster's cage, the hamster's cage cleaned us!"

Can't get enough FroHam? Read more of my musings at justAtad

spooncivicR

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 103
  • Goodnight Julia...
    • My Blog
Re: Favorite Type of Animation and Future of the Artform Thread
« Reply #15 on: July 07, 2008, 08:03:06 PM »
If Studio Ghibli is not "anime", the word loses all utility.  Anime is not a style.  In Japan they refer to all animation as anime so we are not using that definition and traditionally in the west we use the term to refer to Japanese animation that is intended for a Japanese audience.   If you only like Kurosawa films and not those of other Japanese directors, you would not try to make an argument that his film are not Japanese. 

There are more animation directors in Japan that have a personally unique style than just Takahata and Miyazaki.  Satoshi Kon and Mamoru Oshii come to mind and are well know in the US.  Koji Yamamura, Koji Morimoto, and Mamoru Hosoda are all gifted directors that have not gotten much attention much attention outside of Japan (although Yamamura did have one of his shorts nominated for an Oscar). 

There is nothing wrong with only liking a few animated films from Japan but, it is foolish (and a little jingoistic) to try and say that the ones you like are somehow not Japanese...   
Whatever Happens, Happens

Letterboxd

Think_Long

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 877
Re: Favorite Type of Animation and Future of the Artform Thread
« Reply #16 on: July 07, 2008, 08:28:52 PM »
like it or not, the term 'anime' does come attached with certain stylistic assumptions. now, being obviously relatively unfamiliar with 99% of the subject material, i can not speak as expertly as i would like, but when has that ever stopped me?  my main point is thus: if we accept the stereotypical idea of anime, which we may not but it is all i know, then we would most likely never categorize most of the ghibli films as such.  it is their japanese origin that pigeon-holes them into that category, when i'm not sure that they should be.

also, i don't mean to malign anime as a whole, but it gets complicated when the term comes wrapped up with so many assumptions: big eyes, small mouth, flashing backgrounds, and fountains for tears are some of the ones that come to mind. i know that that isn't what anime is at all, but in my mind (and i think to most people's minds) it is exactly like that, and ghibli would never fit those ill-educated, yet broadly accepted parameters. 

FroHam X

  • Objectively Awesome
  • *****
  • Posts: 17792
  • “By any seeds necessary.”
    • justAtad
Re: Favorite Type of Animation and Future of the Artform Thread
« Reply #17 on: July 07, 2008, 09:11:20 PM »
like it or not, the term 'anime' does come attached with certain stylistic assumptions. now, being obviously relatively unfamiliar with 99% of the subject material, i can not speak as expertly as i would like, but when has that ever stopped me?  my main point is thus: if we accept the stereotypical idea of anime, which we may not but it is all i know, then we would most likely never categorize most of the ghibli films as such.  it is their japanese origin that pigeon-holes them into that category, when i'm not sure that they should be.

also, i don't mean to malign anime as a whole, but it gets complicated when the term comes wrapped up with so many assumptions: big eyes, small mouth, flashing backgrounds, and fountains for tears are some of the ones that come to mind. i know that that isn't what anime is at all, but in my mind (and i think to most people's minds) it is exactly like that, and ghibli would never fit those ill-educated, yet broadly accepted parameters. 

Yes. This is exactly what I mean. Sure, I suppose anime refers to all animation from Japan, but I never saw it that way. I have always considered anime to be Japanese animation of a particular style and attatched to certain conventions. And using my own definition I wouldn't consider Ghibli or Miyazaki films as 'anime'.
"We didn't clean the hamster's cage, the hamster's cage cleaned us!"

Can't get enough FroHam? Read more of my musings at justAtad

spooncivicR

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 103
  • Goodnight Julia...
    • My Blog
Re: Favorite Type of Animation and Future of the Artform Thread
« Reply #18 on: July 07, 2008, 09:39:49 PM »
Just for giggles, will someone provide me with an example of "anime".  I know that may sound like I am just being a jerk but, if I asked the average Joe on the street I am sure they would either say Dragonball or Spirited Away.  I would just like to know if we are talking things like Akira or Pokémon. 

It is clear that we are talking about different things on this one.  I would liken it to comic book movies in that I include things like Ghost World while many others would limited it to just super hero movies...

Whatever Happens, Happens

Letterboxd

FroHam X

  • Objectively Awesome
  • *****
  • Posts: 17792
  • “By any seeds necessary.”
    • justAtad
Re: Favorite Type of Animation and Future of the Artform Thread
« Reply #19 on: July 07, 2008, 10:14:34 PM »
Pokemon is something I would consider anime, but that's obviously lesser anime. Just generally crap. But what I was talking about would fit under the lines of Akira. Which I hated by the way.
"We didn't clean the hamster's cage, the hamster's cage cleaned us!"

Can't get enough FroHam? Read more of my musings at justAtad