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Author Topic: 1990s Far East Bracket  (Read 119226 times)

Bondo

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Re: 1990s Far East Bracket
« Reply #1580 on: December 29, 2016, 10:29:49 PM »
Has anyone pointed out yet that no matter what language you listen to an animated film in, it is dubbed? Same with many Italian films? Once you've abandoned synchronized recording of video and sound, why not go for the one in a language you can understand through hearing so you can focus on the visuals instead of the text...after all, it is the visuals that make it a film and not a book.

Also, a lot of Miyazaki Japanese audio is shrill. Girls being VERY excitable and not having control over THE VOLUME OF THEIR VOICE.

MartinTeller

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Re: 1990s Far East Bracket
« Reply #1581 on: December 29, 2016, 10:59:32 PM »
It's an extra degree of separation from the original language. I want to experience the movie as closely to the original intent as possible. I'm already separated from the writing by the translation. At least with subs I can hear the voices the way they were meant to be heard, directed by someone who has a stake in how those voices represent the original intent of the work. With a dub, I'm not only hearing words that may convey a different meaning than what was intended, but on top of that I'm hearing them conveyed in a manner that may be different from what was intended.

With overdubbed Italian films, at least the voice actors are (as I understand it) usually directed by the same person who directed the action.
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smirnoff

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Re: 1990s Far East Bracket
« Reply #1582 on: December 29, 2016, 11:23:33 PM »
Or the contrast between Willis' gruff, new york cop way of talking and Rickman, who was so dignified and proper... Would that dichotomy show up in text? Accents do not exist on the page and would go undetected to someone unfamiliar with the language.
I agree subs loose something, but you do still watch subbed movies with sound and differences in tone of voice are noticeable even if you don't speak the language. You still lose some subtleties of light accents or word choice, but the big things are noticeable, like actors speaking with foreign accents or speaking faster/slower or louder/softer than usual, etc. In fact this is one of the biggest reasons I think subs are better, because dubs often lack these tonal inflections that give context to the words. Even with a weak translation you can mentally accommodate to the tone you're hearing, which isn't possible with a dub.

Just to be clear, I'm only advocating listening to dubs for animated films because of the unique way the genre bypasses many problems usually associated with dubbing. Even then it has to be a good dub. I personally make an exception for Jackie Chan films because they are silly , and the awkwardness of the dubbing only adds to the humour for me.

In regards to your point though, I'm of a mixed opinion. Watching films for the Far East Bracket I often wonder how accurately I am actually interpreting the tones I'm hearing. There are many occasions where it feels like what I'm reading in the subtitles is a few orders of magnitude off of what I'm hearing in the films. For instance, a character may sound quite forceful or severe in their reaction, when by what I've read the conversation has not felt like it had reached that level of intensity. Initially I would chalk that sort of thing up to the subtitler not doing a good job, or it being a badly directed scene regarding the tonal continuity. Now though I often wonder if it's simply a characteristic of some languages. Many of the films we watch for the Far East Bracket are done in tone languages. There are emphasis, intensity and pitch changes which, as I understand it, have nothing whatever to do with the emotions of the speaker, but it is simply a matter of how certain words are pronounced. And then there's the rhythm of the sentence structure, which can be so different to how a line will read in English. A definitive word might land at opposite ends of a line. It can make it quite a struggle for the subs to harmonize with timing of the dialogue in those cases. I've watched some films that have been oddly bumpy that way, and I wonder if it's a combination of these factors. Then of course there are other films where the subs are so harmonized to the dialogue they disappear from your consciousness.

That's why I'm a bit mixed. In my experience I'm not always able to trust my ear. Not that it's ever driven me to listen to a dub as an alternative. I just accept something was lost in translation and move on.

Do you relate to any of that?
« Last Edit: December 29, 2016, 11:30:13 PM by smirnoff »

smirnoff

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Re: 1990s Far East Bracket
« Reply #1583 on: December 29, 2016, 11:41:57 PM »
It's an extra degree of separation from the original language. I want to experience the movie as closely to the original intent as possible. I'm already separated from the writing by the translation. At least with subs I can hear the voices the way they were meant to be heard, directed by someone who has a stake in how those voices represent the original intent of the work. With a dub, I'm not only hearing words that may convey a different meaning than what was intended, but on top of that I'm hearing them conveyed in a manner that may be different from what was intended.

With overdubbed Italian films, at least the voice actors are (as I understand it) usually directed by the same person who directed the action.

Yeah, I can relate to a sub preference from a purity point of view. Then on the other side I also relate to what Bondo said about not wanting any of my attentions diverted to reading. Especially when it comes to a director like Miyazaki.

When I do go to a dub, I guess I look at it a bit like Shakespeare... excited for what any actor might bring to the role. I think Billy Crudup as Ashitaka is just out of this world good.

smirnoff

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Re: 1990s Far East Bracket
« Reply #1584 on: December 30, 2016, 09:08:15 PM »
Looking at what's left, what I haven't seen before, and what I can track down, I'm left with two titles... I'll try The Puppetmaster vs. Blues Harp.

pixote

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Re: 1990s Far East Bracket
« Reply #1585 on: December 30, 2016, 11:17:01 PM »
So the #1 and #2 seeded films are the last to be matched up.

I think it's probably for the best that both they and their opponents will be eligible for resurrection.

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Beavermoose

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Re: 1990s Far East Bracket
« Reply #1586 on: January 05, 2017, 10:26:19 PM »
I guess Mononoke VS A Dedicated Life

pixote

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Re: 1990s Far East Bracket
« Reply #1587 on: January 20, 2017, 03:35:29 PM »
Chungking Express vs. Siao Yu still needs a home. Does anyone feel up to the task?

(Sam the Cinema Snob, BlueVoid, oldkid, Verite, and Jared have already matched up at least one of these films in a previous round, so the hope is for someone new to step up here.)

edit: roujin to the rescue!

pixote
« Last Edit: January 20, 2017, 04:39:24 PM by pixote »
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smirnoff

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Re: 1990s Far East Bracket
« Reply #1588 on: January 21, 2017, 12:01:46 AM »
Thanks for jumping back in roujin!

Teproc

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Re: 1990s Far East Bracket
« Reply #1589 on: February 04, 2017, 05:36:57 PM »
Wait, what ? I can't pick another match-up ? What is this ?  >:(

I suppose it'll have to wait until the end of Filmspots-season at the very least, but I'm very much looking forward to the next round.
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