Author Topic: What I Learned Today  (Read 1464269 times)

Clovis8

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Re: What I Learned Today
« Reply #4920 on: October 04, 2009, 05:52:31 PM »
Fedor Emelianenko trains for MMA by beating up bears, chopping down trees and swimming in an ice cold lake and he's the best fighter the world has ever seen.

Why does everyone seem to think Fedor is so great? In my opinion, until he fights someone good he is an unknown quantity. I would bet he will be another in the long line of Pride fighters "who are the best ever" who turn out to me average at best. Its like everyone claiming some guy playing AHL hockey is better than Gretzky but he refuses to play for the NHL.

Are you kidding me? He's done nothing but fight the best of the best and utterly destroy them. Just look at the list of guys he's beaten.


He fought nearly all those guys when they were far past their prime, except Antonio and Mirko. LOl to Tim Silvia the worst fighter in history to hold a belt.

I am not saying he is not good, but until he steps into the majors to fight it is all meaningless. At a minimum he is an insane ego maniac with delusions of grandeur of biblical proportions. We will see what happens when Strikeforce goes under (as it is almost guaranteed to do). Maybe then he will come down from his high horse.

P.S. Although the HW class is by far the weakest (not only in UFC but in general) so being the best HW is not as impressive as being the best LHW or MW.




Bill Thompson

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Re: What I Learned Today
« Reply #4921 on: October 04, 2009, 06:04:56 PM »
He fought nearly all those guys when they were far past their prime, except Antonio and Mirko. LOl to Tim Silvia the worst fighter in history to hold a belt.

The only guys on the list he beat past their primes were Coleman and Kohsaka, but they were only past their primes the second time he fought them. As for Sylvia, you can hate him all you want, but going into the fight with Fedor he was still a top 5 HW. Sylvia beat people at HW, that's all he did and he will go down as a great HW fighter in the sport.

I am not saying he is not good, but until he steps into the majors to fight it is all meaningless. At a minimum he is an insane ego maniac with delusions of grandeur of biblical proportions. We will see what happens when Strikeforce goes under (as it is almost guaranteed to do). Maybe then he will come down from his high horse.

SF is not EXC, their promoter Scott Coker is a really smart guy. He runs shows in areas where he is guaranteed to get a great turn out and he never goes over budget. He runs a really smart company that never overspends, and always makes a profit.

Fedor did fight in the majors Clovis. Despite what the UFC has trained people like you to think, Pride was every bit as major as the UFC was. Their HW division was quite a bit better than that of the UFC, and the two best HWs of that time in the UFC were subsequently destroyed by Fedor.

P.S. Although the HW class is by far the weakest (not only in UFC but in general) so being the best HW is not as impressive as being the best LHW or MW.

It is when you are the most dominant champion the sport has ever seen. Fedor has been the linear HW champion since he first beat Big Nog, and he has defended that title 17 times. It's not just the fact that he has won, he has destroyed everyone put in front of him. In his entire career Fedor has been in some sort of trouble for a grand total of two minutes, and that's due to how great of a fighter he is.

Listen Cee-Lo, I have trained in this sport since I was 18, I have watched it since I was 15 and unfortunately you fall into the category of one of the people who has been brainwashed by the UFC. They don't hold a monopoly on all the talent, StrikeForce has a lot of great fighters, so does Sengoku and Dream. Pride had just as many, if not more, great fighters when they were around. The proof is in the pudding for Fedor, that's why the UFC wanted him so badly, and if not for his manager being a Russian mob boss he would be in the UFC. Ask any professional involved in the sport of MMA and they will tell you without doubt that Fedor is the best in the sport. There's no questioning that, he has proven it time and time again and he will continue to prove it fight after fight because outside of maybe Josh Barnett there isn't a single HW out there now who poses a threat to him.

Clovis8

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Re: What I Learned Today
« Reply #4922 on: October 04, 2009, 06:16:11 PM »
I never said he wasn't the best. I just dont think its proven yet. As for the UFC it is pretty clear you dislike them (for legit reasons) and they treat their fighters pretty bad. However, its the majors no matter how you look at it. Pride was a major 6 years ago but not anymore. The UFC is the NHL and Pride is the AHL. Everyone who is in Pride wants to be in the UFC.

The only reason Fedor is not in the UFC is his demands were so retarded (LOL 50% of the gate!) that it was laughable. As for Strikeforce. the owner may be a genius but it has zero chance of success (if we are defining success as becoming even remotely as big as UFC). If it does survive for more than a year or two (which I would bet against) it will forever be the Arena football league.


Bill Thompson

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Re: What I Learned Today
« Reply #4923 on: October 04, 2009, 06:27:50 PM »
I never said he wasn't the best. I just dont think its proven yet. As for the UFC it is pretty clear you dislike them (for legit reasons) and they treat their fighters pretty bad. However, its the majors no matter how you look at it. Pride was a major 6 years ago but not anymore. The UFC is the NHL and Pride is the AHL. Everyone who is in Pride wants to be in the UFC.

That's a terrible analogy. Pride at its biggest was bigger than the UFC could ever hope to be. You keep on trying for this major/minor league comparison, but that's just wrong when it comes to Pride. Just because the organization folds that doesn't change how big they were or the level of talent that they had.

As for my dislike of the UFC, that would also be false. I love fighting, I just don't have any ties to any organization. I'm all about the fights and the fighters, not any specific organization. What gets me about the IFC is that they have convinced you and others that they were the end all to be all of talent, when that isn't the case. They have the best fighters in the world, but they don't have all of them. There are hundreds of highly skilled fighters, and a bunch of top 10 fighters, who for one reason or another don't want to fight in the UFC. Or in the case of some they want to fight in the UFC but they won't sign them because they don't fit what the UFC wants in a fighter.

The only reason Fedor is not in the UFC is his demands were so retarded (LOL 50% of the gate!) that it was laughable.

Agreed, but that's because as I said his manager is a mob boss. It's also the same reason that the best prospect in the world right now, Gegard Mousasi, won't be in the UFC anytime soon.

As for Strikeforce. the owner may be a genius but it has zero chance of success (if we are defining success as becoming even remotely as big as UFC). If it does survive for more than a year or two (which I would bet against) it will forever be the Arena football league.



SF has already been around for four years now, while the main global competitor to the UFC, K-1/Dream, has been around for over 15 years now. The UFC does not have a stranglehold on the industry, despite what they want people to think. SF will be around for a long time, and K-1/Dream is never going away, they control the entire Far East market to the point where the UFC can't hold shows over there.

All I'm saying Cee-Lo is to do your research and learn the truth. The UFC is the biggest MMA org going right now, but they aren't unbeatable and they aren't the only big org out there. They don't have all the best talent in the world and there will always be at least one org that is just as major leagues as they are.

Clovis8

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Re: What I Learned Today
« Reply #4924 on: October 04, 2009, 06:51:15 PM »

Pride at its biggest was bigger than the UFC could ever hope to be.

This is a crazy statement Bill. By any measure (purse, gates, PPV, viewers, marketing, tv deals, etc) you can use to judge a promotion, Pride was never even close to the size of the current UFC. It was the big dog in its time for sure, but it was not the UFC. Look at the recent TUF ep, it was the highest rated MMA fight of all time.

Obviously you know more than me, which is why I like talking to you about MMA, but I have been a fan for more than 10 years now and have watched pretty much every major aired card in that time (UFC, XEC, PRIDE, Afflication, Dream, WEC etc, not to mention seeing over 30 live cards here in Edmonton) so I do know a little. I have seen all the available Fedor fights and he is awesome for sure, I just dont think he has done nearly enough to be called the greatest in the sports history yet. 30-1 is a sick record though.

I dont think I am brainwashed by the UFC. I have the same issues with them that many critics do (esp how they treat fighters).

I agree there will always be great fighters who never fight in UFC just as there are great talents who never play in the biggest league of their respective sport. The fact still remains, that in basically every sport you have to play on the biggest stage to be called the best.

P.S. I got to see Travis Lutter beat Jason McDonald here a few days ago which was awesome.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2009, 06:53:52 PM by Clovis8 »

FLYmeatwad

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Re: What I Learned Today
« Reply #4925 on: October 04, 2009, 07:20:55 PM »
The Toy Story double feature did not do nearly as well as my theater capacity led me to believe. Conversely, great to see Jesse score a number one opening.

FroHam X

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Re: What I Learned Today
« Reply #4926 on: October 04, 2009, 07:27:23 PM »
The Toy Story double feature did not do nearly as well as my theater capacity led me to believe. Conversely, great to see Jesse score a number one opening.

It only played around 1,500 screens at only 3 shows per day, and it's not a new release. I'd say it did pretty darn well.
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FLYmeatwad

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Re: What I Learned Today
« Reply #4927 on: October 04, 2009, 07:28:48 PM »
The Toy Story double feature did not do nearly as well as my theater capacity led me to believe. Conversely, great to see Jesse score a number one opening.

It only played around 1,500 screens at only 3 shows per day, and it's not a new release. I'd say it did pretty darn well.

Yeah, but given the inflated prices I had expected it to do more. Plus it's one of the few films to ever sell out when I was in attendance at my theater.

Bill Thompson

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Re: What I Learned Today
« Reply #4928 on: October 04, 2009, 08:21:38 PM »

Pride at its biggest was bigger than the UFC could ever hope to be.

This is a crazy statement Bill. By any measure (purse, gates, PPV, viewers, marketing, tv deals, etc) you can use to judge a promotion, Pride was never even close to the size of the current UFC.

MMA is not yet a global sport, no matter how much I wish it were. Pride was never big in America, by the same token the UFC has never been big in in the Far East, while neither the UFC or Pride have been as big in Europe as K1 is. Meanwhile the only other MMA market is South America and no one is big there except for the local promotions.

If you want to talk strictly the North American market then no one comes close to touching the UFC's numbers. However, the numbers the UFC gets in North America have never come close to touching the numbers Pride did in the Far East at its highest point. Pride aired shows on basic cable that regularly drew ratings in the 30's, numbers that blow away anything the UFC has ever done. That's not a knock against the UFC, it's just a fact of how the sport is perceived in different areas.

In the current landscape UFC dominates the North American numbers, but K1 dominates the Far East numbers and wins the rather small European numbers as well. South America is still South America and only the small promotions do well. I applaud the UFC's attempts to become more global, but sadly the numbers show that right now it is a losing battle. Since Zuffa took over the company they have lost bucket loads of money on every non-North American show they have run. The same holds true for K1, when they run in North America they do horrendous numbers. One day MMA will be a global sport, but right now it is territorial with certain promotions controlling certain regions, and no matter how much the UFC wants people to believe they dominate everything, they don't do so globally.

We're just going to have to disagree about Fedor, because the man doesn't have to prove anything, once he beat Tim and Arlovski he cemented his legacy in place, that's just the way it is.

P.S. I got to see Travis Lutter beat Jason McDonald here a few days ago which was awesome.

I didn't get to see that card, but I heard that outside of a couple of fights it was a less than stellar card. Particularly the Eastman fight, that was supposedly terrible. At least there weren't any terrible hometown decisions like in the UWC card where Chase Beebe routed Mike Easton for four out of the five rounds only to loss a robbery of a hometown decision.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2009, 08:27:06 PM by Newman!!! »

oneaprilday

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Re: What I Learned Today
« Reply #4929 on: October 04, 2009, 10:37:34 PM »
Ugh. Would satellite be better than dialup?

We've looked into satellite - another expensive start-up, about $200, I think, at least $60/month and only slightly better than dial-up.  :(

could tether a cell phone OAP.

We're thinking about something like this. In the meantime, I'm still here for some reason. Cautiously, yay!