Author Topic: Disney Animation Marathon: Pinocchio  (Read 13857 times)

edgar00

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Re: Disney Animation Marathon: Pinocchio
« Reply #30 on: March 12, 2009, 11:46:50 PM »
Oh darn, I completely forgot about The Jungle Book, a movie I did see many years ago. You got me there.
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edgar00

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Re: Disney Animation Marathon: Pinocchio
« Reply #31 on: March 13, 2009, 12:00:22 AM »
Lest I forget, thanks to 1StrongOpinion for starting the discussion on Pinocchio. You were a fine substitute teacher, schooling these folk in how to dissect a Disney film.

Normal schedule next Friday. I just had a little hickup last week regarding my availability to spend 5 hours watching, reading about and then writing about a single film.
-Le Chiffre: You changed your shirt, Mr Bond. I hope our little game isn't causing you to perspire.

-James Bond: A little. But I won't consider myself to be in trouble until I start weeping blood.

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Melvil

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Re: Disney Animation Marathon: Pinocchio
« Reply #32 on: March 13, 2009, 12:47:48 AM »
Awesome review, edgar. Really well thought out and insightful, you brought up a lot of points I never considered, and some I did but forgot to mention. :) I'm just off to bed now, but I might respond to a few points tomorrow.

edgar00

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Re: Disney Animation Marathon: Pinocchio
« Reply #33 on: March 13, 2009, 03:04:07 PM »
I was reading over the posts (something I didn't do until today so my review wouldn't be skewed in any way), and I'm noticing a lot of love for Figaro. Yeah, he was alright, although I didn't think he was the greatest thing ever. Good interaction with the fish and Geppetto, nicely animated as well, but he felt a bit like an afterthought for me.
-Le Chiffre: You changed your shirt, Mr Bond. I hope our little game isn't causing you to perspire.

-James Bond: A little. But I won't consider myself to be in trouble until I start weeping blood.

https://twitter.com/Betweentheseats
http://crabkeyheadquarters.wordpress.com/

1SO

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Re: Disney Animation Marathon: Pinocchio
« Reply #34 on: March 13, 2009, 03:30:40 PM »
I was reading over the posts (something I didn't do until today so my review wouldn't be skewed in any way), and I'm noticing a lot of love for Figaro. Yeah, he was alright, although I didn't think he was the greatest thing ever. Good interaction with the fish and Geppetto, nicely animated as well, but he felt a bit like an afterthought for me.

I also got the feeling that some people were confusing Figaro for Honest John's cat companion, Gideon.

Bill Thompson

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Re: Disney Animation Marathon: Pinocchio
« Reply #35 on: March 13, 2009, 03:38:36 PM »
I was reading over the posts (something I didn't do until today so my review wouldn't be skewed in any way), and I'm noticing a lot of love for Figaro. Yeah, he was alright, although I didn't think he was the greatest thing ever. Good interaction with the fish and Geppetto, nicely animated as well, but he felt a bit like an afterthought for me.

I also got the feeling that some people were confusing Figaro for Honest John's cat companion, Gideon.

Not in my case, I really loved Figaro, both how he was animated and how mischievous of a character he was.

FLYmeatwad

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Re: Disney Animation Marathon: Pinocchio
« Reply #36 on: March 13, 2009, 03:45:01 PM »
I was reading over the posts (something I didn't do until today so my review wouldn't be skewed in any way), and I'm noticing a lot of love for Figaro. Yeah, he was alright, although I didn't think he was the greatest thing ever. Good interaction with the fish and Geppetto, nicely animated as well, but he felt a bit like an afterthought for me.

I also got the feeling that some people were confusing Figaro for Honest John's cat companion, Gideon.

Not in my case, I really loved Figaro, both how he was animated and how mischievous of a character he was.

I agree with Bill, that cat kicks ass.

Melvil

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Re: Disney Animation Marathon: Pinocchio
« Reply #37 on: March 16, 2009, 07:07:31 PM »
I really loved Figaro (not Gideon) because of his personality. I love any time an animated character doesn't speak, but manages to communicate that much personality and emotion. Plus he's just given so many fun moments.

I've got a few responses to Edgar's review I've been meaning to get to. First of all, thanks for researching the history of the project, it's interesting to hear what the original intent was and how it developed into the final product.

Even the musical sequences, albeit far and few between, seemed to serve the purpose of the story.

I don't think I touched on this in my review, but I did appreciate that the musical sequences do serve the story. In Snow White, most of the sequences are songs for the sake of songs, which I really enjoyed, but in Pinnochio they were integrated into the story, helping it feel like a more cohesive whole.

And yet, by the film’s end, the fairy rewards the cricket for his efforts anyways with the shiny golden badge he asked for in the beginning of the tale. What have I overlooked?

Your point about Jiminy Cricket and evaluation of his role sounds pretty spot on to me. I think I just assumed he was being rewarded for his good intentions, and that things worked out in the end, but you're right. I don't recall any solid examples of him really contributing to Pinnochio's growth. I'm going to tie this into the following point:

There are no major antagonists per say in the story, only a series of smaller foes that are hurdles which Pinocchio must surpass in order to vanquish the real villain of the story: temptation. The temptation of earning skipping school, the temptation of earning money the easy way, the temptation to lie in order to hide one’s faults and mistakes. As mature cinephiles (except for a few of us), we understand this message, this is very clear. But as part of a children’s tale, I thought it was a clever idea. Don’t make the villain a monster, a ghost or an alien. Rather, have the hero challenged above all else by his own weaknesses.

I can't really argue with the morals the movie sets out to teach, but in regards to both Pinnochio and Jiminy Cricket, I felt like it works better on paper than in the film. Neither Jiminy or Pinnochio truly succeed at their goals in any significant way, and it's just dumb luck that they always recovered from the rotten situations they got into. Pinnochio makes mistake after mistake, but does he ever actually learn? His decision to rescue Geppeto is not a moral one, it's as selfish an act as the ones prior to it.

1SO

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Re: Disney Animation Marathon: Pinocchio
« Reply #38 on: March 16, 2009, 07:25:35 PM »
Something interesting I learned from the commentary... When Pinocchio sets his finger on fire and Geppetto goes crazy trying to save him, watch how his stocking cap disappears and reappears from shot to shot.
It starts around 4:30

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwLo_Zs-hbM#


edgar00

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Re: Disney Animation Marathon: Pinocchio
« Reply #39 on: March 16, 2009, 08:11:51 PM »
I really loved Figaro (not Gideon) because of his personality. I love any time an animated character doesn't speak, but manages to communicate that much personality and emotion. Plus he's just given so many fun moments.

I've got a few responses to Edgar's review I've been meaning to get to. First of all, thanks for researching the history of the project, it's interesting to hear what the original intent was and how it developed into the final product.

Even the musical sequences, albeit far and few between, seemed to serve the purpose of the story.

I don't think I touched on this in my review, but I did appreciate that the musical sequences do serve the story. In Snow White, most of the sequences are songs for the sake of songs, which I really enjoyed, but in Pinnochio they were integrated into the story, helping it feel like a more cohesive whole.

And yet, by the film’s end, the fairy rewards the cricket for his efforts anyways with the shiny golden badge he asked for in the beginning of the tale. What have I overlooked?

Your point about Jiminy Cricket and evaluation of his role sounds pretty spot on to me. I think I just assumed he was being rewarded for his good intentions, and that things worked out in the end, but you're right. I don't recall any solid examples of him really contributing to Pinnochio's growth. I'm going to tie this into the following point:

There are no major antagonists per say in the story, only a series of smaller foes that are hurdles which Pinocchio must surpass in order to vanquish the real villain of the story: temptation. The temptation of earning skipping school, the temptation of earning money the easy way, the temptation to lie in order to hide one’s faults and mistakes. As mature cinephiles (except for a few of us), we understand this message, this is very clear. But as part of a children’s tale, I thought it was a clever idea. Don’t make the villain a monster, a ghost or an alien. Rather, have the hero challenged above all else by his own weaknesses.

I can't really argue with the morals the movie sets out to teach, but in regards to both Pinnochio and Jiminy Cricket, I felt like it works better on paper than in the film. Neither Jiminy or Pinnochio truly succeed at their goals in any significant way, and it's just dumb luck that they always recovered from the rotten situations they got into. Pinnochio makes mistake after mistake, but does he ever actually learn? His decision to rescue Geppeto is not a moral one, it's as selfish an act as the ones prior to it.

I think his decision to save Geppeto may be a selfish act, but within it hides a certain morality. If my father is in grave danger, my reflex is do whatever I can within my power to save him. It is a selfish act but it is the morally correct one. By the film's end, the fairy rewards Pinocchio by turning him into a real boy. He has committed a great act of good. He put his own life on the line in order to save someone eles. Pinocchio may not have been thinking about what is right and what is wrong at the time of making that decision, but ultimately he makes the right one. I think that by being rewarded by the fairy, he understands the meaning of the decision he made and therefore the meaning of sacrifice and making morally just decisions.
-Le Chiffre: You changed your shirt, Mr Bond. I hope our little game isn't causing you to perspire.

-James Bond: A little. But I won't consider myself to be in trouble until I start weeping blood.

https://twitter.com/Betweentheseats
http://crabkeyheadquarters.wordpress.com/