Poll

What is Mann's best directed film?

haven't seen any
0 (0%)
don't like any
2 (2.7%)
Thief
2 (2.7%)
The Keep
0 (0%)
Manhunter
1 (1.4%)
The Last of the Mohicans
11 (15.1%)
Heat
25 (34.2%)
The Insider
16 (21.9%)
Ali
1 (1.4%)
Collateral
8 (11%)
Miami Vice
7 (9.6%)
Public Enemies
0 (0%)
Blackhat
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 72

Author Topic: Mann, Michael  (Read 13334 times)

1SO

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Re: Mann, Michael
« Reply #90 on: February 28, 2018, 02:48:16 PM »

L.A. Takedown (1989)

I've watched Heat dozens of times to where I know the dialogue pretty well. This TV Movie is a failed Pilot for a series that was made after Heat called Robbery Homicide Division, and isn't the first time Mann has reworked the same material for both the large and small screen. 1986's Manhunter was an episode of Miami Vice called "Shadow in the Dark" (Season 3, Episode 6). On its own, this is a fairly terrible movie, but it works as one of the greatest DVD bonuses, a rough draft version of Heat.

Quote
Heat (1995) had 6 months of pre-production, and a 117 day shooting schedule. L.A. Takedown (1989) had 10 days of pre-production, and a 19 day shooting schedule. Michael Mann said that comparing one film to the other is like comparing "freeze dried coffee" to "Jamaican Blue Mountain".

Takedown is visually bare-bones, with a washed out look and sorely missing Mann's widescreen compositions. The acting is also varying degrees of terrible. The worst is Scott Plank in Al Pacino's role, though again it's so interesting to hear the same dialogue in the hands of this amateur doing a bad impression of young and cocky Ben Affleck and compare it to Pacino's over-sized inflections. (De Niro's role is by Alex McArthur, who isn't bad.) There are some familiar faces, including Michael Rooker, Daniel Baldwin and Xander Berkeley. Berkeley plays a different role in Heat. Here is chews it up as troublemaker Waingro.


Waingro was one of my big problems with Heat. (The other is the number of sub-plots, which this version doesn't have time for. So that's one point for Takedown.) If this crew is so professional, why did they allow a wild card, trigger happy punk into their group? Here, the bad guys aren't set up to be a superteam. They just mesh well and have a smart leader, but this particular combo seems to be fairly new. That makes the mistake of Waingro more plausible. 

You get the expected lesser versions of Heat's classic scenes - the shootout, the coffee talk - but there are other scenes too, like the trap set to expose the cops. ("These guys are good. You know what he's looking at? Us. We just got made") The two leads have their relationship dramas and some of the same interrogations proceed minus the epic frills, which only solidifies how strong the dialogue is. Some scenes take place in the same locations. This can be viewed as similar to a fan remaking a classic film, but coming from the original director (and editor) it holds a watchability that transcends all the low-budget badness.
Rating: ★ ★ ½

smirnoff

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Re: Mann, Michael
« Reply #91 on: February 28, 2018, 06:10:38 PM »
Interesting. I had never known about this film or what it was. Thanks for the review, because it's the sort of thing I'll never watch myself but is neat to hear about. Some of the names in the cast do make it an interesting prospect. If it were on a level playing field in terms of time and budget and general visual pedigree I would certainly jump at the chance to see it.

Something I like about Heat is that there's no "young men". There's no "kid" in the crew. Of if there is he's long since matured. Val Kilmer is the youngest member and has his weaknesses (gambling) but he's not a cocky amateur doing it to because it makes him feel cool. What I'm getting at is that there's no "new" member serving as the audience surrogate. It's weird to compliment a film for what it isn't maybe, but I think that's a strong characteristic of the script.

I rewatched Heat very recently and it's interesting that even now I cannot recall how or why it comes to pass that Waingro joins their crew. I don't know that they ever explain the exact circumstances that led to his being allowed to participate, or who vouches for him. In hindsight it's obviously a mistake on the crew's part to include him, but as far as the script is concerned I guess I've always given it the benefit of the doubt and assumed there was some justifiable reason for his being there.

I can only imagine what's it's like to hear a line, which you've always known to be delivered in that uniquely Pacino way, being delivered by someone else. It must sounds dead flat. This is not something I would like to experience.

1SO

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Re: Mann, Michael
« Reply #92 on: February 28, 2018, 09:01:55 PM »
I rewatched Heat very recently and it's interesting that even now I cannot recall how or why it comes to pass that Waingro joins their crew. I don't know that they ever explain the exact circumstances that led to his being allowed to participate, or who vouches for him.
I believe it was Tom Sizemore who apologizes saying that Waingro was his call. I took it that the job required one more guy. In Takedown Sizemore's character is the only one who works with De Niro all the time. The driver backs out because he sells them out to the cops, and nobody thinks it's a betrayal because they don't work together often. For Heat, Mann sets it up as the greatest gang of cops vs. the greatest crew of criminals, which makes the inclusion of Waingro more questionable since he's such an obvious loose cannon.


I can only imagine what's it's like to hear a line, which you've always known to be delivered in that uniquely Pacino way, being delivered by someone else. It must sounds dead flat. This is not something I would like to experience.
There's a line in Takedown where the character says, "Or you're gonna get killed walking your dog." Pacino's version is "Or you're gonna get killed walking your doggie," and he says the last part in a very unique way. It's the kind of delivery that some viewers find over the top, but I can understand how Mann lived with that line for years and along comes someone who spins the language in such a way that I understand wanting to use the more outrageous take.

Being a fan of Ronin, I know you must get a similar feeling from the dialogue in Heat.
"What am I doing? I'm talking to an empty telephone...
...because there is a dead man on the other end of this CINECAST!ing line."


"He knew the risks, he didn't have to be there. It rains... you get wet.

smirnoff

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Re: Mann, Michael
« Reply #93 on: February 28, 2018, 09:14:04 PM »
Being a fan of Ronin, I know you must get a similar feeling from the dialogue in Heat.
"What am I doing? I'm talking to an empty telephone...
...because there is a dead man on the other end of this CINECAST!ing line."


"He knew the risks, he didn't have to be there. It rains... you get wet.

Nice comparison. It is a quality I like in both films, certainly. :) I might throw Spartan into that same mix. I think the vibe is similar.

"Why would I want to know? I ain't a planner, I ain't a thinker. I never wanted to be. You got to set your motherCINECAST!er to receive. Listen to me. They don't go through the door, we don't ask why. That's not a cost, it's benefit. Because we get to travel light. They tell me where to go. Tell me what to do when I get there."

I don't know how to describe it, do you?

1SO

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Re: Mann, Michael
« Reply #94 on: March 01, 2018, 12:38:06 AM »
Macho efficiency?

Certain filmmakers deal almost exclusively with it. Ronin and Spartan are both written by David Mamet. (Have you ever tried The Edge?) The Grandfather of this style is probably Howard Hawks.

"I'm paid to risk my neck. I'll decide where and when I'll do it. This isn't it."

"I'm lookin' at a tin star with a... drunk pinned on it."

"I'm not gonna say anything. I'm just gonna go out and buy you a pine box."



Bull: Here's a couple of badges. Now, raise your right hand. I forgot the words, but you better say 'I do'!
Cole, Mississippi: I do!
Bull: Now you're deputies!
Mississippi: You suppose these will do any good if somebody takes a shot at us?
Bull: Give them a good mark to shoot at.

smirnoff

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Re: Mann, Michael
« Reply #95 on: March 01, 2018, 02:09:32 AM »
I did watch The Edge at one point, probably because Mamet's name was attached, but it's not one I came away from enjoying especially. Maybe it takes an urban setting for that flavour to come out in the language.

I always forget Mamet having anything to do with Ronin.

Hawks is one of those old blind spots for me, but I have seen a couple of his westerns. Good dialogue is critical for a western, and those films had it.

philip918

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Re: Mann, Michael
« Reply #96 on: March 01, 2018, 04:51:34 PM »
Heat
Last of the Mohicans

Manhunter
Collateral

The Insider
Ali

The Keep
Miami Vice

Public Enemies


Clearly need to see Thief. I tried watching it once and fell asleep.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2018, 06:07:19 PM by philip918 »

1SO

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Re: Mann, Michael
« Reply #97 on: March 01, 2018, 05:01:24 PM »
Miami Vice (pilot)

Michael Mann never directed any episodes of the series. Only the feature film.

philip918

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Re: Mann, Michael
« Reply #98 on: March 01, 2018, 06:07:55 PM »
Miami Vice (pilot)

Michael Mann never directed any episodes of the series. Only the feature film.

Ah, corrected. Too bad, since the TV episode is vastly superior.

1SO

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Re: Mann, Michael
« Reply #99 on: March 01, 2018, 10:22:40 PM »
Updated Rankings

The Keep (1983)

A bit of The Golem with a Hellraiser type story set in Nazi occupied Romania. All the elements are here and the atmosphere is very strong, but the comparison of human evil and supernatural evil (done right in Pan’s Labyrinth) is only occasionally hinted at here. Mostly, people stand around ready to do something. A waste of on-screen talent (Jürgen Prochnow, Ian McKellen, Scott Glenn and Gabriel Byrne) but the biggest waste is Mann’s energy applied to set design and lighting effects but not once to telling a story.


Blackhat (2015)
★ ★ ★ - Good
What a surprise. Chris Hemsworth playing a James Bond cyberhacker, released from prison because nobody does it better (or looks as good doing it) is a few leaps of logic beyond far-fetched, and there are a number of smaller head-scratchers along the way, but Mann delivers the most seemingly plausible, globetrotting techno thriller out of character types thanks to some great location work, macho action scenes and the best use of his digital cameras by far. This is rated lower than The Keep on IMDB, which is just dumb.

 

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