Author Topic: Observe and Report  (Read 24963 times)

oneaprilday

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Re: Observe and Report
« Reply #10 on: April 16, 2009, 09:32:15 PM »
So I haven't seen the movie (don't want to), but I hope you'll let me say a bit more here anyway.

Interesting theory that anything can be funny in the right context. . . .  I don't know, can child pornography ever be funny? can victims of the Holocaust (or of Abu Ghraib, as Manohla Dargis refers to in her review of O&R) ever be funny?

You bring up an interesting point, Dracula, in noting that Richard Pryor is not wildly offensive when he jokes about racism. If Pryor was white, would his jokes about racism still be funny? I'm kind of thinking that the problem with a joke about date rape (or about child pornography, the Holocaust, Abu Ghraib) is that we're dealing with groups of people who have power and groups of people who don't. Surely, when the people with the power (the oppressing class) base a joke on those who don't have power (the oppressed), it's not funny; it's sadistic. Is it ever funny if a Nazi makes a joke about killing Jews? Is it ever funny if a man makes a joke about raping a woman?  I'm having a really hard time believing that's possible.

FroHam X

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Re: Observe and Report
« Reply #11 on: April 16, 2009, 09:38:16 PM »
So I haven't seen the movie (don't want to), but I hope you'll let me say a bit more here anyway.

Interesting theory that anything can be funny in the right context. . . .  I don't know, can child pornography ever be funny? can victims of the Holocaust (or of Abu Ghraib, as Manohla Dargis refers to in her review of O&R) ever be funny?

You bring up an interesting point, Dracula, in noting that Richard Pryor is not wildly offensive when he jokes about racism. If Pryor was white, would his jokes about racism still be funny? I'm kind of thinking that the problem with a joke about date rape (or about child pornography, the Holocaust, Abu Ghraib) is that we're dealing with groups of people who have power and groups of people who don't. Surely, when the people with the power (the oppressing class) base a joke on those who don't have power (the oppressed), it's not funny; it's sadistic. Is it ever funny if a Nazi makes a joke about killing Jews? Is it ever funny if a man makes a joke about raping a woman?  I'm having a really hard time believing that's possible.

A Nazi making a joke about killing Jews would be disturbing and highly anti-Semitic. A white person making a joke about black people is not necessarily racist, but one has to be careful in making sure it doesn't sound like they're being racist. Take Ricky Gervais. In his latest stand-up thingy on HBO he joke about all manner of potentially offensive topics ranging from STDs to the Holocaust, and he is never offensive, and always hilarious.
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Adam

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Re: Observe and Report
« Reply #12 on: April 16, 2009, 09:50:17 PM »
Matty and I don't address the date rape controversy at all, just a heads-up... doesn't interest us much. But for what it's worth, the scene isn't funny... but it's also not that offensive either. She has a line of dialogue that pretty much takes the scene out of the realm of rape. She's totally hammered, but she's aware of what's happening. It's a joke that misses... but I don't see how it's condoning rape.

Additionally, not sure how you can level misogyny charges at Hill... every character is pretty much batshit crazy and subject to ridicule. Does Hill hate men because his "hero" is about the most obnoxious, unlikeable guy ever? I guess if your interpretation of the movie's misogyny is based totally on your view of the "rape" scene...
« Last Edit: April 16, 2009, 09:57:06 PM by Adam »
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duder

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Re: Observe and Report
« Reply #13 on: April 16, 2009, 10:19:15 PM »
Matty and I don't address the date rape controversy at all, just a heads-up... doesn't interest us much. But for what it's worth, the scene isn't funny... but it's also not that offensive either. She has a line of dialogue that pretty much takes the scene out of the realm of rape. She's totally hammered, but she's aware of what's happening. It's a joke that misses... but I don't see how it's condoning rape.

Yeah, exactly. It's a joke that's set up to invite outrage, playing on somewhat androphobic preconceptions of male/female sexual relationships, and Farris' line is the punchline.
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oneaprilday

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Re: Observe and Report
« Reply #14 on: April 16, 2009, 11:33:35 PM »
So because it only looks like date rape for a couple of seconds, but HA HA, GOTCHA! it's really not, it's supposed to be funny?

Holly Harry

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Re: Observe and Report
« Reply #15 on: April 17, 2009, 12:03:28 AM »
Given the level of consciousness that Farris' character is at during that scene(remember that she went to Ronnie's house forgetting why she was even there, and that was BEFORE she got wasted) despite her line, I'm pretty sure the action during the scene in question does qualify as date rape. Though the film depicts Ronnie as being fairly oblivious to pretty much every single social situation, he obviously doesn't have any malicious intent during the moment. That being said, it's still disturbing. Either way, the joke, at least the way I took it, has nothing to do with the rape itself, but the absurdity of the situation, so it's not like it's glorifying rape, the same with doing drugs and beating up skateboarders, and so on.
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Holly Harry

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Re: Observe and Report
« Reply #16 on: April 17, 2009, 12:11:09 AM »
So I haven't seen the movie (don't want to), but I hope you'll let me say a bit more here anyway.

Interesting theory that anything can be funny in the right context. . . .  I don't know, can child pornography ever be funny? can victims of the Holocaust (or of Abu Ghraib, as Manohla Dargis refers to in her review of O&R) ever be funny?

You bring up an interesting point, Dracula, in noting that Richard Pryor is not wildly offensive when he jokes about racism. If Pryor was white, would his jokes about racism still be funny? I'm kind of thinking that the problem with a joke about date rape (or about child pornography, the Holocaust, Abu Ghraib) is that we're dealing with groups of people who have power and groups of people who don't. Surely, when the people with the power (the oppressing class) base a joke on those who don't have power (the oppressed), it's not funny; it's sadistic. Is it ever funny if a Nazi makes a joke about killing Jews? Is it ever funny if a man makes a joke about raping a woman?  I'm having a really hard time believing that's possible.

Hence "it's all about the context". Mocking genocide and other tragedies is horrible and wrong, but just because you make a joke concerning any of these subjects doesn't mean you are undermining the horror of the event in question itself. And nothing in Observe and Report is mocking rape, or any of the horrible things it depicts, it's finding humor out of situations involving those things, but it's not mocking or making fun, not even in the slightest. I don't even think it's undermining mental illness. I think it gives a surprisingly well rounded depiction of the disorder of this particular character(I like the way the cuts and tone mimic the spiral into bi-polar without medication).

There's actually a stretch of the film(maybe about 5 minutes) that's pretty....sad. In fact my favorite joke in the movie is a comment on this, and it allows the audience to laugh again(Scene in Ray Liotta's office with his friend in closet, for those who have seen the film).
« Last Edit: April 17, 2009, 12:16:50 AM by Holly Harry »
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oneaprilday

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Re: Observe and Report
« Reply #17 on: April 17, 2009, 01:27:36 AM »
So I haven't seen the movie (don't want to), but I hope you'll let me say a bit more here anyway.

Interesting theory that anything can be funny in the right context. . . .  I don't know, can child pornography ever be funny? can victims of the Holocaust (or of Abu Ghraib, as Manohla Dargis refers to in her review of O&R) ever be funny?

You bring up an interesting point, Dracula, in noting that Richard Pryor is not wildly offensive when he jokes about racism. If Pryor was white, would his jokes about racism still be funny? I'm kind of thinking that the problem with a joke about date rape (or about child pornography, the Holocaust, Abu Ghraib) is that we're dealing with groups of people who have power and groups of people who don't. Surely, when the people with the power (the oppressing class) base a joke on those who don't have power (the oppressed), it's not funny; it's sadistic. Is it ever funny if a Nazi makes a joke about killing Jews? Is it ever funny if a man makes a joke about raping a woman?  I'm having a really hard time believing that's possible.

Hence "it's all about the context". Mocking genocide and other tragedies is horrible and wrong, but just because you make a joke concerning any of these subjects doesn't mean you are undermining the horror of the event in question itself. And nothing in Observe and Report is mocking rape, or any of the horrible things it depicts, it's finding humor out of situations involving those things, but it's not mocking or making fun, not even in the slightest. I don't even think it's undermining mental illness. I think it gives a surprisingly well rounded depiction of the disorder of this particular character(I like the way the cuts and tone mimic the spiral into bi-polar without medication).

There's actually a stretch of the film(maybe about 5 minutes) that's pretty....sad. In fact my favorite joke in the movie is a comment on this, and it allows the audience to laugh again(Scene in Ray Liotta's office with his friend in closet, for those who have seen the film).

I hear you, and I appreciate the distinction you are making.
Given that I haven't seen the film, I'm not really qualified to comment on it any further. I'll look forward to hearing what Adam and Matty think of it, even if they don't directly address the scene in question.

Rene A. Moncivais

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Re: Observe and Report
« Reply #18 on: April 17, 2009, 02:54:35 AM »
I think the thing that is supposed to be funny in that scene is the fact that Ronnie really thinks that the so called date is going awesome for him.  So when she utters her line he starts trying a little harder.  His character and all of the characters in the movie are delusional, except maybe the new security guard kid from Friday Night Lights.  I don't know, that's what I thought during that scene. 

I liked this movie quite a bit, it's basically a comedic take on Taxi Driver.
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duder

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Re: Observe and Report
« Reply #19 on: April 17, 2009, 06:13:22 AM »
So because it only looks like date rape for a couple of seconds, but HA HA, GOTCHA! it's really not, it's supposed to be funny?

Whether it's actually funny or not is up for discussion — and I don't really know, nor do I care —, but I guess it's meant to be funny, yes. Discussing whether or not a fictional representation of rape can be funny is irrelevant in this context though, because that's not what's there. Like I said, it plays on audience expectations. The joke is on us.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2009, 06:16:12 AM by duder »
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