Author Topic: 90s US Round 5: Ghost Dog vs. Election  (Read 17554 times)

pixote

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1990s US Bracket, Round 5: Ghost Dog vs. Election
« Reply #10 on: April 13, 2009, 12:26:10 AM »
More semantics:  I think the question of whether or not Payne is mocking his character is a red herring.  I don't think it matters what Payne is laughing at but what the film invites us to laugh at (and how we respond).  Take, for example, the fact that the freeze frames of Tracy always show her at her most unflattering (Junior provides a sample screenshot above).  What motivates this choice?  Is it just, "Hahaha, this girl looks dumb and ugly like this!"?  Or is it supposed to represent, subjectively, the way McAlister sees Tracy (making his pettiness the target of the joke)?  Both options seem problematic to me (there are probably other options): the first because "look how ugly she looks" isn't my kind of humor, so I personally would chalk that up to a joke that misses and even insults; the second because I don't think McAlister's seeing her like that is consistent with the rest of the film.  I think he's threatened by her external beauty and inner poise, resentful of her sexual attractiveness that led to Dave getting fired but also inspired by that attractiveness to pursue a substitute sexual fantasy.

[I could argue the other side of this, but I'm tired and there are other people left to chime in.]

pixote
« Last Edit: April 13, 2009, 12:30:10 AM by pixote »
I think I'd love how awkward it'd be, or how awkward it should be.

Junior

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1990s US Bracket, Round 5: Ghost Dog vs. Election
« Reply #11 on: April 13, 2009, 12:42:33 AM »
For me, the freezeframes were about showing that, even in a moment of intelligence (or perhaps smartness would be a better word), Flick looks silly. My friends and I often talk about whether a person is smart or intelligent. An intelligent person wouldn't look (as) silly in a freezeframe because there is something deeper than just book smarts, but a person like Flick who only knows how she thinks things should work (also seen in her coda at the end) would look silly because she is just reciting something she absorbed from a book.
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ˇKeith!

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1990s US Bracket, Round 5: Ghost Dog vs. Election
« Reply #12 on: April 13, 2009, 12:45:48 AM »
satire
1  : a literary work holding up human vices and follies to ridicule or scorn   2  : trenchant wit, irony, or sarcasm used to expose and discredit vice or folly
(Merriam-Webster)

caricature
  1  : exaggeration by means of often ludicrous distortion of parts or characteristics   2  : a representation especially in literature or art that has the qualities of caricature   3  : a distortion so gross as to seem like caricature 
(Merriam-Webster)

I highlighted what I felt was the key difference between the two.

Under those definitions I would take the side that Election is simply a caricature of a set of stereotypes.


You know in a great satire yr not actually supposed to like the characters... in fact they are supposed to repulse you.  Your entire arguement means that the film is infact great satire.

Clovis8

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1990s US Bracket, Round 5: Ghost Dog vs. Election
« Reply #13 on: April 13, 2009, 12:51:07 AM »
satire
1  : a literary work holding up human vices and follies to ridicule or scorn   2  : trenchant wit, irony, or sarcasm used to expose and discredit vice or folly
(Merriam-Webster)

caricature
  1  : exaggeration by means of often ludicrous distortion of parts or characteristics   2  : a representation especially in literature or art that has the qualities of caricature   3  : a distortion so gross as to seem like caricature 
(Merriam-Webster)

I highlighted what I felt was the key difference between the two.

Under those definitions I would take the side that Election is simply a caricature of a set of stereotypes.


You know in a great satire yr not actually supposed to like the characters... in fact they are supposed to repulse you.  Your entire arguement means that the film is infact great satire.

Keith is correct.

pixote

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« Reply #14 on: April 13, 2009, 12:55:18 AM »
So maybe now Junior will admit that Goodfellas is great satire.

pixote
I think I'd love how awkward it'd be, or how awkward it should be.

ˇKeith!

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« Reply #15 on: April 13, 2009, 12:56:25 AM »
So maybe now Junior will admit that Goodfellas is great satire.

pixote

did I stop short of saying that?!?

pixote

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« Reply #16 on: April 13, 2009, 12:58:39 AM »
I was being satiric.  Hate me!

pixote
I think I'd love how awkward it'd be, or how awkward it should be.

jbissell

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1990s US Bracket, Round 5: Ghost Dog vs. Election
« Reply #17 on: April 13, 2009, 01:07:33 AM »
I AM SICKENED TO MY CORE

 :P

Junior

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« Reply #18 on: April 13, 2009, 01:08:13 AM »
So maybe now Junior will admit that Goodfellas is great satire.

pixote

I will not.
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jbissell

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1990s US Bracket, Round 5: Ghost Dog vs. Election
« Reply #19 on: April 13, 2009, 01:10:09 AM »

Election

My experience watching Elecion was certainly an odd one. I had seen the film at least a couple of times before, and I knew that I really liekd that film and I often recommended it. I remember thinking it was a great social satire, and it was witty and engaging and unique. I take it all back. Watching it again for this marathon I was almost completely repulsed by the film. Here and there there were funny bits or clever pieces of dialogue, but overall there was not much redeeming about the film.


Why do you think you've had such a change of heart?  Is it an age thing, like being more removed from high school and having a different perspective of it now?