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Author Topic: 90s US Round 5: Ghost Dog vs. Election  (Read 26669 times)

edgar00

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1990s US Bracket, Round 5: Ghost Dog vs. Election
« Reply #40 on: April 13, 2009, 12:54:10 PM »
And the biggest flaws in the film are in the scenes where your actually supposed to care about the relationship between the father & son - they feel incongruous to the rest of it - esp that climcatic question fired off at the end of the trial and the pause in Eckhart's response. 

Well, I think that has more to do with a flaw in the writing and direcing. The film keeps somewhat of a cold distance for the most part, and in those really close familial moments it doesn't work quite as it should. But even with the cold distancing tone of most of the film I still felt invested in all the characters. Even the characters you weren't supposed to like (Bill H. Macy) carry an emotional or intellectual investment. And what's more, they are all in service of some great social satire.

I don't know about you, but for me that had to do with Eckhart's acting and what he brought to the character. It also helps if one simply finds cocky, smart-ass characters like his amusing, which I do. I can think of a number of people who didn't like the film because they had the polar opposite reaction to the Eckhart character.
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skjerva

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1990s US Bracket, Round 5: Ghost Dog vs. Election
« Reply #41 on: April 13, 2009, 01:17:43 PM »
I haven't seen Dark City, but from what I remember a lot of people let it pass into deeper rounds of the bracket because it's good, flawed, but has a lot of potential.


yeah, i obviously didn't find any reason to move either film forward, i was hoping someone would point something out i might have missed.  my take is that True Romance has the misogyny and racism to hold it back.  i think Bill's claim that TR is more typical is also worthwhile, though i don't think there is anything too special about Dark City, i'll put it through.


i had Election versus My Voyage to Italy and moved Election on.  while i think most of my decision was based on how terribly disappointing (read: bad) Voyage was, i did appreciate the potential feminist criticism to be found in Election, i wrote:

This film is uneasily about the zealousness that women must exhibit to get ahead recognizing there is a glass ceiling, of course, combined with the uneasiness of men when women are capable and driven.

The sub-narratives of McAllister cheating on his wife with a family best friend as well as adopted sister Tammy’s lesbianism all work to deflate centering of the male ego.  In all, an entertaining and worthwhile film.

i'm not sure i thought a lot about it, it was good, but not great, though i'd be interested to do a more thorough feminist analysis of it.  i reckon many of the complaints i had with it are shared by others.  it's been awhile since i've watched Ghost Dog, but i'm pretty sure i'd push it throgh.
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Thor

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1990s US Bracket, Round 5: Ghost Dog vs. Election
« Reply #42 on: April 13, 2009, 01:44:17 PM »
It's interesting that so many of you are struggling with Election because you can't find a character to empathize with... would the equivalent be a refusal to vote in an election because you don't identify with any of the candidates?

Also, Ghost Dog rules, so whatever, man. I ain't got no vote in this country anyway.
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edgar00

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1990s US Bracket, Round 5: Ghost Dog vs. Election
« Reply #43 on: April 13, 2009, 01:53:49 PM »
It's interesting that so many of you are struggling with Election because you can't find a character to empathize with... would the equivalent be a refusal to vote in an election because you don't identify with any of the candidates?

Also, Ghost Dog rules, so whatever, man. I ain't got no vote in this country anyway.

I understand the logic of your analogy, but I think that might be stretching things a bit far. It's easier to dismiss a film because one doesn't like any of the characters then to not have a say in who the next decision maker of your country is because you don't identify with the candidates.

I'll chuck the movie out of the bracket but I'll take the time to weigh my voting options and actually go out and vote.
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sdedalus

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1990s US Bracket, Round 5: Ghost Dog vs. Election
« Reply #44 on: April 13, 2009, 02:09:03 PM »
It's interesting that so many of you are struggling with Election because you can't find a character to empathize with... would the equivalent be a refusal to vote in an election because you don't identify with any of the candidates?

For me, at least, it's not that I can't identify with the characters, I can, all of them in all their flaws.  I just don't know who I'm supposed to be rooting for.  That doesn't make the film bad, it just makes me confused.

Oddly, I think skjerva, of all people, comes closest to capturing what Payne's really trying to argue with the film.  So now, in addition to being confused, I am scared.
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jbissell

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1990s US Bracket, Round 5: Ghost Dog vs. Election
« Reply #45 on: April 13, 2009, 02:59:54 PM »
It's interesting that so many of you are struggling with Election because you can't find a character to empathize with... would the equivalent be a refusal to vote in an election because you don't identify with any of the candidates?

For me, at least, it's not that I can't identify with the characters, I can, all of them in all their flaws.  I just don't know who I'm supposed to be rooting for.  That doesn't make the film bad, it just makes me confused.

Oddly, I think skjerva, of all people, comes closest to capturing what Payne's really trying to argue with the film.  So now, in addition to being confused, I am scared.

It certainly isn't far-fetched, especially considering Payne's film before Election was Citizen Ruth (which I just realized didn't make the bracket)

sdedalus

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1990s US Bracket, Round 5: Ghost Dog vs. Election
« Reply #46 on: April 13, 2009, 03:22:01 PM »
The only other Payne feature I've seen is About Schmidt, I like Election a lot more than that film.  I dig the zany style: multiple voiceovers, freeze frames and such.  I recall Schmidt as very restrained, if not dull.
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ˇKeith!

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1990s US Bracket, Round 5: Ghost Dog vs. Election
« Reply #47 on: April 13, 2009, 03:36:42 PM »
Dear Ndugu...

sdedalus

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1990s US Bracket, Round 5: Ghost Dog vs. Election
« Reply #48 on: April 13, 2009, 04:08:35 PM »
Meh.
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FroHam X

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1990s US Bracket, Round 5: Ghost Dog vs. Election
« Reply #49 on: April 13, 2009, 04:15:22 PM »
It's interesting that so many of you are struggling with Election because you can't find a character to empathize with... would the equivalent be a refusal to vote in an election because you don't identify with any of the candidates?

For me, at least, it's not that I can't identify with the characters, I can, all of them in all their flaws.  I just don't know who I'm supposed to be rooting for.  That doesn't make the film bad, it just makes me confused.

Oddly, I think skjerva, of all people, comes closest to capturing what Payne's really trying to argue with the film.  So now, in addition to being confused, I am scared.

The feminist angle is there, and it sure is an interesting one. I just don't think it helps the case when the only driven female is also annoying as hell. And she isn't annoying because she's driven, she's annoying because she was written that way and acted that way.
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