Author Topic: 90s US Round 5: Glengarry Glen Ross vs. Goodfellas  (Read 30763 times)

íKeith!

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90s US Round 5: Glengarry Glen Ross vs. Goodfellas
« Reply #10 on: April 24, 2009, 01:52:31 AM »
Quote from: Junior
That is a better way of putting your problem with the film, however I still disagree. While I have not seen the play I am going to guess that it all takes place in a stationary setting. By adding a camera that isn't just plopped in a corner of the room there is artistry involved. The specific perspective provided by each camera placement is by definition filmic.

To put it in a simpler and more condensed manner, the fact that a camera is used and that it changes the angles from which we view the happenings is, for me, enough of a change from stage (a static angle) to screen (changing and moving angles). And it's pretty great as a film.

íKeith!

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90s US Round 5: Glengarry Glen Ross vs. Goodfellas
« Reply #11 on: April 24, 2009, 01:54:33 AM »
Quote from: skjerva
Quote from: Clovis8
However, great art must be additive.

what was that terrance?

re-editor's note - has Jon seen South Park now? (Awesome!)

íKeith!

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90s US Round 5: Glengarry Glen Ross vs. Goodfellas
« Reply #12 on: April 24, 2009, 01:56:06 AM »
Quote from: Clovis8
Quote from: skjerva
Quote from: Clovis8
However, great art must be additive.

what was that terrance?

?

íKeith!

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90s US Round 5: Glengarry Glen Ross vs. Goodfellas
« Reply #13 on: April 24, 2009, 01:57:19 AM »
Quote from: skjerva
Quote from: Clovis8
However, great art must be additive.

phillip, what did you say?

íKeith!

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90s US Round 5: Glengarry Glen Ross vs. Goodfellas
« Reply #14 on: April 24, 2009, 01:58:31 AM »
Quote from: 1StrongOpinion
As one of the 5 official participants in this matchup, I want to throw my support behind everything Clovis8 is saying.  The editing of Goodfellas is aggressive, but exhilarating.  GGGR is simplistic and annoying.  Some scenes do nothing more than cut between 2 close-ups, holding on whoever's talking.

The script for GGGR is amazing and if this were simply a battle between 2 scripts than it would be a far more intriguing duel.  But Goodfellas isn't just Great Directing, it's my favorite work by Martin Scorsese.

I've just finished both films, and I'm ready to close the leads and slice the garlic thin.

tag, pix yr in.

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90s US Round 5: Glengarry Glen Ross vs. Goodfellas
« Reply #15 on: April 24, 2009, 02:00:09 AM »
Quote from: jagsfans
As one of the 5 official participants in this matchup, I want to throw my support behind everything Clovis8 is saying.  The editing of Goodfellas is aggressive, but exhilarating.  GGGR is simplistic and annoying.  Some scenes do nothing more than cut between 2 close-ups, holding on whoever's talking.

The script for GGGR is amazing and if this were simply a battle between 2 scripts than it would be a far more intriguing duel.  But Goodfellas isn't just Great Directing, it's my favorite work by Martin Scorsese.

I've just finished both films, and I'm ready to close the leads and slice the garlic thin.

It melts down in the pan better that way...  I like the way this is going.
I think I'd love how awkward it'd be, or how awkward it should be.

pixote

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90s US Round 5: Glengarry Glen Ross vs. Goodfellas
« Reply #16 on: April 24, 2009, 02:00:32 AM »
Quote from: Holly Harry
Scorsese is a mostly subjective filmmaker, and through his camera and cutting, he likes putting the audience in the same subconscious emotional state as the character(s). There is a reason why the film keeps getting faster and faster as it goes on. I love Glengarry Glen Ross, but Goodfellas is an absolute masterpiece about American conformity.
I think I'd love how awkward it'd be, or how awkward it should be.

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90s US Round 5: Glengarry Glen Ross vs. Goodfellas
« Reply #17 on: April 24, 2009, 02:00:59 AM »
Quote from: 1StrongOpinion
GOODFELLAS vs. GLENGARRY GLENROSS

I love the separate threads for separate verdicts.

I love the films being evaluated by a committee now instead of an individual.  That's the real key to the greatness of these verdicts and I wish it had been possible to do it sooner.  The resurrection policy is a perfect attempt to keep classic films from falling away due to some shakey judgement, (which happened the moment Clerks defeated Pulp Fiction.)

Even before it got down to 16, the brackets were victimized by a corrupt justice system which choked out some of the inarguable classics of the 90's.  (Silence of the Lambs, Pulp Fiction and a pair of Fincher films - Se7en, Fight Club - that should be on anybody's Top 20).

So now you have to consider the personal bias of the judges when handing out cases.  I'm looking at the great contrarians of the board,  FLYmeatwad and lotr-sam0711, whose wonderful and insightful opinions often conflict with general thinking.  (Good luck, Out of Sight.) Along the same lines, Best Wishes to all you Malick fans if I get handed The Thin Red Line.

I can take the remaining films and fill out the chart to the end right now, but that goes against what the brackets are all about.  With that in mind, I rewatched Goodfellas (always a pleasure), and looked at Glengarry GlenRoss for the 1st time in 15 years.  It's a lot better than I remembered.  My memory of the film was a rather dull 1st half (except for Baldwin's classic but overly-mannered cameo) and an exciting 2nd half.  This time I liked the pre-crime half much more, almost as much as the aftermath.  Biggest complaint... Lemmon's sad sack routine seemed really thick on the page, with the direction (the lights go out as the subway roars by) and in the performance. His house visit was badly handled melodrama.

So, GGGR was a much better experience than I remembered.  But - and I've seen this quote used in a few recent verdicts - it should never have gone this deep into the brackets.
And against Goodfellas... come on.

VERDICT:
Goodfellas.
I'm still up to debate, and I love a persuasive argument.  My mind isn't locked down tight with no budging, because I love a well-thought out counterpoint.  (The recent Election bashing has been especially eye-opening).  But I want my associates (and the courtroom) to know where I stand on this matter.
I think I'd love how awkward it'd be, or how awkward it should be.

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90s US Round 5: Glengarry Glen Ross vs. Goodfellas
« Reply #18 on: April 24, 2009, 02:05:45 AM »
Quote from: skjerva
I love Glengarry Glen Ross, but Goodfellas is an absolute masterpiece about American conformity.

say more on this.  one of the things often missing from analysis around here is the cultural work these films are doing - what is the film about?  what are the stakes?   from my Goodfellas verdict:

Present-day Henry provides voice-over for scenes from his childhood.  We are told that he enjoyed the power and “respect” from being associated with the mob and that the mob was really looking out for their own when the police and other institutions would not.  So I am getting swept up with young Henry, the idea of parallel institutions, community, chosen family, all that good stuff – thematically it seems the film is hitting its stride and meshing with ideas I tend to value.  Then, it begins, the excessive violence and clever bits start creeping in and taking over.  The film feels as if it is trying to stay true to the story it is based upon, thus the matter-of-fact killings are not held up for judgment, instead included just as ornamental plot points.  The killings are not portrayed as ethically problematic, instead it is the deviations from expected behavior, seen most clearly with Tommy, that are ethically troublesome in this world.  Not to harp on the issue, but the film, while technically well crafted, just doesn’t do it for me in the story or meanings departments.

as far as critiquing Glengarry for being too theatrical, or bringing nothing new to the screen, i say harumph!  in addition to the obvious that Junior (and someone else) noted, this is a film, it is filmic, case closed.  but, more importantly i think, cinema has a very different audience and cultural impact than theatre - Always Be Closing meant nothing before '92 (or shortly thereafter).  does Goodfellas have a larger cultural mark?  maybe, but what is it?  i think folks come away from GGR with a strong anti-boss message, maybe thinking about their jobs. i'm not sure what folks come away from Goodfellas with, reductively perhaps, but i think it is pretty much understood as a "cool" gangster film - not sure i see any value in that.
I think I'd love how awkward it'd be, or how awkward it should be.

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90s US Round 5: Glengarry Glen Ross vs. Goodfellas
« Reply #19 on: April 24, 2009, 02:06:44 AM »
Quote from: edgarchaput
That's actually a really interesting topic and question. Personally, I always felt Goodfellas was a fun, well crafted mobster film. I just have a good time when I watch it. I never put any thought into the cultural relevance of the film. Granted, I'm not American, so perhaps there are some things about the film's American cultural 'importance' that would fly over my head, but I'd be very curious to read what people have to say on it. Like I said, I just think the movie is fun. I'd be hard pressed to dissect what kind of cultural importance it possesses.
I think I'd love how awkward it'd be, or how awkward it should be.