Author Topic: 90s US Round 6: My Own Private Idaho vs. Lost Highway (Deadline: June 14)  (Read 20005 times)

skjerva

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sean great take; thor, too.  i wish more of that would have been written about earlier, hopefully we can use some of that to dig deeper for the next round. 

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it seems pretty clear there are two ways of being in the film - the het and monied way against the queer and homeless/outcast way.

I think the films portrays a greater spread of options than just this simple dichotomy.  What of Hans and his part in part in both worlds or the time in the Italian countryside where Scotty finds love without money and a place and person of comfort on the other side of the world.  The films shows a gaggle of wanderers true but there are many reasons behind their movements.

of course the film is not absolutely dichotomous, but those are the tensions.  you are right in pointing out hans as a "solution" to the problem - a fantastic character, brilliantly played.  bullshit on scotty finding love without money, he has money.  even if it isn't currently in his bank account, it is less than a week from being there, but more importantly, he is of money and privilege.  i think his denial of two men being unable to love one another is a crucial detail.  his (impending) wealth and status are what define him.  he admits that he chose to live queerly so that his father would be more impressed when he changed - he used bob's band for poverty tourism/imperial plunder/etc.

em, i wouldn't worry about being disappointed by MOPI  :)
But I wish the public could, in the midst of its pleasures, see how blatantly it is being spoon-fed, and ask for slightly better dreams. 
                        - Iris Barry from "The Public's Pleasure" (1926)

íKeith!

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sorry, didn't mean the lack of money on scotty's side but in the form of the Carmella.  Its clear that Scotty is calculating - the films shows that he's not entirely accepted by the outcasts (magazine scene) but he seduced Bob making him part of the warm center of the community. His falling for Carmella is shown as being something pure.

The most interesting thing about the portrayal of Scotty (he is the character with the story arc after all, not Mikey... but this goes to the disjointed and unsure nature of the story) is that he can travel in their world freely but when the outcasts transgress into his they are shunned.  And one of the main reasons given (albeit by unreliable narrator Bob) is that it is because they too would not harm Scotty because they are waiting to join him in his inheritance.  So money is given privalege no matter in which world one travels.

skjerva

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sorry, didn't mean the lack of money on scotty's side but in the form of the Carmella.  Its clear that Scotty is calculating - the films shows that he's not entirely accepted by the outcasts (magazine scene) but he seduced Bob making him part of the warm center of the community. His falling for Carmella is shown as being something pure.

The most interesting thing about the portrayal of Scotty (he is the character with the story arc after all, not Mikey... but this goes to the disjointed and unsure nature of the story) is that he can travel in their world freely but when the outcasts transgress into his they are shunned.  And one of the main reasons given (albeit by unreliable narrator Bob) is that it is because they too would not harm Scotty because they are waiting to join him in his inheritance.  So money is given privalege no matter in which world one travels.

right, we all want money because it often makes thing like home more possible.  the wealth that exists is kept and distributed by by the jet-setting class that can come and go as it pleases.  this gets back to Mike's exchange/critique of wealth with the rabbit i noted earlier.  i don't think there is anything "pure" about scotty falling for carmella, it feels more convenient than anything - she is a pretty exotic character that scotty can parade around to his new class of friends.  i don't think we know enough about carmella to say much about her economic status, nor do we know how much (if any) of her "love" for scotty is tied to his wealth.  what we do know is that they are now a wealthy het couple.
But I wish the public could, in the midst of its pleasures, see how blatantly it is being spoon-fed, and ask for slightly better dreams. 
                        - Iris Barry from "The Public's Pleasure" (1926)

Thor

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sorry, didn't mean the lack of money on scotty's side but in the form of the Carmella.  Its clear that Scotty is calculating - the films shows that he's not entirely accepted by the outcasts (magazine scene) but he seduced Bob making him part of the warm center of the community. His falling for Carmella is shown as being something pure.

The most interesting thing about the portrayal of Scotty (he is the character with the story arc after all, not Mikey... but this goes to the disjointed and unsure nature of the story) is that he can travel in their world freely but when the outcasts transgress into his they are shunned.  And one of the main reasons given (albeit by unreliable narrator Bob) is that it is because they too would not harm Scotty because they are waiting to join him in his inheritance.  So money is given privalege no matter in which world one travels.

right, we all want money because it often makes thing like home more possible.  the wealth that exists is kept and distributed by by the jet-setting class that can come and go as it pleases.  this gets back to Mike's exchange/critique of wealth with the rabbit i noted earlier.  i don't think there is anything "pure" about scotty falling for carmella, it feels more convenient than anything - she is a pretty exotic character that scotty can parade around to his new class of friends.  i don't think we know enough about carmella to say much about her economic status, nor do we know how much (if any) of her "love" for scotty is tied to his wealth.  what we do know is that they are now a wealthy het couple.

Why do you think Scotty falls for the Italian girl? I doubt it's so he can parade her around to his friends - is he really thinking that far ahead when their in gypsy Roma? - and think that's the word "convenient" is probably apt - as in, it's convenient to the story Van Sant's trying to graft onto another story here, but the character motivations are underdeveloped...?
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skjerva

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sorry, didn't mean the lack of money on scotty's side but in the form of the Carmella.  Its clear that Scotty is calculating - the films shows that he's not entirely accepted by the outcasts (magazine scene) but he seduced Bob making him part of the warm center of the community. His falling for Carmella is shown as being something pure.

The most interesting thing about the portrayal of Scotty (he is the character with the story arc after all, not Mikey... but this goes to the disjointed and unsure nature of the story) is that he can travel in their world freely but when the outcasts transgress into his they are shunned.  And one of the main reasons given (albeit by unreliable narrator Bob) is that it is because they too would not harm Scotty because they are waiting to join him in his inheritance.  So money is given privalege no matter in which world one travels.

right, we all want money because it often makes thing like home more possible.  the wealth that exists is kept and distributed by by the jet-setting class that can come and go as it pleases.  this gets back to Mike's exchange/critique of wealth with the rabbit i noted earlier.  i don't think there is anything "pure" about scotty falling for carmella, it feels more convenient than anything - she is a pretty exotic character that scotty can parade around to his new class of friends.  i don't think we know enough about carmella to say much about her economic status, nor do we know how much (if any) of her "love" for scotty is tied to his wealth.  what we do know is that they are now a wealthy het couple.

Why do you think Scotty falls for the Italian girl? I doubt it's so he can parade her around to his friends - is he really thinking that far ahead when their in gypsy Roma? - and think that's the word "convenient" is probably apt - as in, it's convenient to the story Van Sant's trying to graft onto another story here, but the character motivations are underdeveloped...?

i was merely challenging the idea that the film posits any "pureness" of love here, i really think that is a stretch, even more of a stretch than...perhaps my take on (the) Roma is a stretch (apparently, thinks you), but i think it thematically fits, and isn't completely ape-shit  :P
But I wish the public could, in the midst of its pleasures, see how blatantly it is being spoon-fed, and ask for slightly better dreams. 
                        - Iris Barry from "The Public's Pleasure" (1926)

íKeith!

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how so?  in every other situation in the film we are given ulterior motives for scotty's amorous actions (often thru The Bard's asides) - this is not the case in Italy - the film sees this as something different, organic & new in his life. 

skjerva

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how so?  in every other situation in the film we are given ulterior motives for scotty's amorous actions (often thru The Bard's asides)

???

what are the "amorous actions"? and "asides"?  if you mean sex (implied), going on memory: the twin peaks lady, i don't recall an aside; the police simulation with mike, don't recall aside; hans, no aside recall.  i'm not necessarily doubting there were asides, i just don't remember any.  can you be more specific?  were there other scotty sex acts than these three? (excluding carmella)
But I wish the public could, in the midst of its pleasures, see how blatantly it is being spoon-fed, and ask for slightly better dreams. 
                        - Iris Barry from "The Public's Pleasure" (1926)

íKeith!

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crap, now imma have to go and find these things.