Author Topic: Inglourious Basterds  (Read 61562 times)

chardy999

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Re: Inglourious Basterds
« Reply #440 on: January 02, 2010, 10:06:35 PM »
RE: OAD

Landa didn't want to be put in front of a jury and was getting out early.
We know Germany would lose and that there would be a war crimes tribunal. Landa didn't. We don't get any indication in the film that Germany is losing or that Landa thinks they are and he's worried about his future. Tell me specifically what details in the film back up your statement about Landa.

Landa was highly insulted by direct or indirect attacks on his intelligence and the killing of Bridget was a logical culmination of her disrespect.
Again, where in the film do you see this as a part of his character? Give me some details - otherwise, it's only a possibility, not something that's clearly from the film itself. I don't see enough depth in his relationship with Bridget for there to be a culmination of anything.


1.He knows you need to kill the big four to end the war. He planted the bomb behind Hitler. He also knows about all the dynamite in the theatre. Basically he knows it is ending and wants to save his skin.

2.The details of their history isn't important - just that they have one. He is offended by her mountain-climbing story (proved by the over-laughing) which mocks his intelligence - she should obviously know better he thinks. He is offended by Raine when he and the other Basterd are at the table with Landa at the end.
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FroHam X

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Re: Inglourious Basterds
« Reply #441 on: January 02, 2010, 10:09:14 PM »
Quote
Why would Shosanna kneel down, seemingly out of some kind of compassion(?), to check on Zoller? She's about to brutally kill a room full of Nazis, finally getting some retribution for the killing of her entire family, and she feels compassion for an arrogant Nazi sniper hero who was just about to rape her? Really? (And why didn't she shoot him with more bullets in the first place? Every other character was pointedly generous in the shooting of the bullets department.) Seems to me like it was just an easy way to kill her off quickly and brutally - yay! more violence!! Nice one, Tarantino - you really surprised me by killing a character I kind of cared about! You're awesome. (By the way, as a film buff, wouldn't she have known the villain is never really dead? You've got to make sure about those guys, you know; you riddle them with bullets, but they still rise to shoot you when you're least expecting it!)

I bought it. Sure, Shoshana is about to brutally murder a theater full of Nazis, but the difference is none of these Nazis have a face, a name, a history. They're just Nazis. The Nazis who, symbolically, killed her parents. The Nazis who persecute her people. The Nazis... you get it. On the other hand, Shoshana grows to know Zoller. By the end of the film, she sees a glimpse of humanity in him. He seems almost innocent in death. She takes pity on him at this point.

Maybe it's not wholly consistent, but I wasn't thinking "wtf?" when I was watching the movie.
Yeah, I don't know what else to say except that I didn't buy it. What was the glimpse of Zoller's humanity? The groan? That's it?

It's the first time she's killed someone, so there's that. It's also a situation where she has gottent o know the person she killed. On top of that, in the moment, seeing his face on the movie screen and realizing that she has killed him and that there is a humanity to him despite his actions and affiliations, she feels a connection to him. All I can say to add to that is that I totally bought it and it never crossed my mind as inconsistent, but it did for you and that's that.
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oneaprilday

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Re: Inglourious Basterds
« Reply #442 on: January 02, 2010, 10:30:12 PM »
RE: OAD

Landa didn't want to be put in front of a jury and was getting out early.
We know Germany would lose and that there would be a war crimes tribunal. Landa didn't. We don't get any indication in the film that Germany is losing or that Landa thinks they are and he's worried about his future. Tell me specifically what details in the film back up your statement about Landa.

Landa was highly insulted by direct or indirect attacks on his intelligence and the killing of Bridget was a logical culmination of her disrespect.
Again, where in the film do you see this as a part of his character? Give me some details - otherwise, it's only a possibility, not something that's clearly from the film itself. I don't see enough depth in his relationship with Bridget for there to be a culmination of anything.


1.He knows you need to kill the big four to end the war. He planted the bomb behind Hitler. He also knows about all the dynamite in the theatre. Basically he knows it is ending and wants to save his skin.

2.The details of their history isn't important - just that they have one. He is offended by her mountain-climbing story (proved by the over-laughing) which mocks his intelligence - she should obviously know better he thinks. He is offended by Raine when he and the other Basterd are at the table with Landa at the end.
So you're saying he's basically deciding to the end the war though he could just have well prevented the end because he think he's going to gain more from ending it somehow? I guess I still don't see why, from the info in the film, ending it is any better than not ending it, in terms of what he has to gain. It's still a big risk to put himself in the hands of the Basterds.

I still don't see that the bare fact of their having a history means much. He does over laugh (haha, that was pretty great, btw), but I still don't get that that means he's so offended he's going to brutally strangle her?
I guess I'd need to watch it again to see the clues that he's super-sensitive about his intelligence.

oneaprilday

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Re: Inglourious Basterds
« Reply #443 on: January 02, 2010, 10:34:14 PM »
Quote
Why would Shosanna kneel down, seemingly out of some kind of compassion(?), to check on Zoller? She's about to brutally kill a room full of Nazis, finally getting some retribution for the killing of her entire family, and she feels compassion for an arrogant Nazi sniper hero who was just about to rape her? Really? (And why didn't she shoot him with more bullets in the first place? Every other character was pointedly generous in the shooting of the bullets department.) Seems to me like it was just an easy way to kill her off quickly and brutally - yay! more violence!! Nice one, Tarantino - you really surprised me by killing a character I kind of cared about! You're awesome. (By the way, as a film buff, wouldn't she have known the villain is never really dead? You've got to make sure about those guys, you know; you riddle them with bullets, but they still rise to shoot you when you're least expecting it!)

I bought it. Sure, Shoshana is about to brutally murder a theater full of Nazis, but the difference is none of these Nazis have a face, a name, a history. They're just Nazis. The Nazis who, symbolically, killed her parents. The Nazis who persecute her people. The Nazis... you get it. On the other hand, Shoshana grows to know Zoller. By the end of the film, she sees a glimpse of humanity in him. He seems almost innocent in death. She takes pity on him at this point.

Maybe it's not wholly consistent, but I wasn't thinking "wtf?" when I was watching the movie.
Yeah, I don't know what else to say except that I didn't buy it. What was the glimpse of Zoller's humanity? The groan? That's it?

It's the first time she's killed someone, so there's that. It's also a situation where she has gottent o know the person she killed. On top of that, in the moment, seeing his face on the movie screen and realizing that she has killed him and that there is a humanity to him despite his actions and affiliations, she feels a connection to him. All I can say to add to that is that I totally bought it and it never crossed my mind as inconsistent, but it did for you and that's that.
Yes, true, it's the first time she's killed someone, but she certainly didn't hesitate at all in the doing of it. She's gotten to know him and despises him, don't you think? I just don't see how she feels a connection to him. Sorry.

libra_1989

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Re: Inglourious Basterds
« Reply #444 on: January 02, 2010, 11:51:43 PM »
Or maybe he just put up shop there w/o asking and said she let him do it...(the most likely scenario)...

If the above scenario is correct, then my theory is still quite possible that Landa and Shossana spoke again. Finding Landa sitting in her office with out her permission most probably scared her off. But even if Shossana was avoiding Landa, Landa most probably took every opportunity he could to speak to her and creep her out.I just can't accept the fact that Landa would let go of Shossana so easily. Being the Sherlock-Holmes-detective that Landa happens to be, I'm 100 percent certain that Landa investigated "Emmanuelle Mimieux's" background and found a lot of clues pointing to the fact that the real Emmanuelle Mimieux was dead, and done further investigation to figure out who was the young girl who had taken on "madam Mimieux" as her alias, and found some information which indicated to him that this was the same Shossana who escaped from him four years ago.

Remember that Landa is a sadist. He likes playing mind-games with his victims. Which is why I find it very hard to believe that he would let go of Shossana so easily after realizing that she was alive after everything that happened to her and her family four years ago because of Landa. Which is why I'am lead to the conclusion that he most probably spoke to her again to creep her out as much as possible, and gaining access to Shossana's office was one such opportunity that Landa used to speak to her again. Also lets not forget that Landa is in charge of the security in the theater. He was most probably hanging around the theater for quite some time (I'm assuming at least a few weeks) before the screening of the movie took place. Such a scenario is ripe with a lot of opportunities for Landa to confront Shossana.

chardy999

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Re: Inglourious Basterds
« Reply #445 on: January 03, 2010, 12:06:58 AM »
I remember thinking that IB wouldn't generate much discussion. wrong. Sorry, WRONG.
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libra_1989

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Re: Inglourious Basterds
« Reply #446 on: January 03, 2010, 12:14:42 AM »


2) And why strangle von Hammersmark so brutally? I've read in this thread suggestions that he did it out of passion because a) he had a previous relationship with von Hammersmark and b) he was mad 'cause she insulted his intelligence. First, indications of the previous relationship seemed pretty slight to me. Did I miss a look or a line of dialogue that showed he was enraged or still in love with her? I sensed no spark between them that would have lead to a crime of romantically related passion. Second, he seemed too confident a character to be so incensed by a silly lie. He was sure of his intelligence, and I didn't see any previous indication in the film that insults to his intelligence would elicit such a response. Frankly, I think the whole thing was just an excuse for some brutal violence (and another shot of a woman's feet), a character's consistency be damned.


It's a good thing you brought this up, because my next question was whether I was the only one who felt that there was a slight sexual undertone to the strangulation scene? I just can't seem to put my finger on it, but there was definitely something sexual about that (and I certainly don't mean that in a good way)...I've read in another website, I'm not sure who posted it, but somebody mentioned that since it's been hinted to the audience that Landa was a womanizer at one time, and also considering the fact that he and Bridgette Von Hammersmark seem to be have met each other before, many years back, it's quite easy to assume that he and Bridgette might have dated each other some years back, and their relationship might not have ended well, which might explain the sexual undertone to the strangulation scene. This theory makes sense, because I'm sure that the younger, womanizing-Landa, would not pass up a good opportunity to date one of Germany's most famous, successful and beautiful actress.    
« Last Edit: January 03, 2010, 04:39:08 AM by libra_1989 »

St. Martin the Bald

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Re: Inglourious Basterds
« Reply #447 on: January 03, 2010, 11:35:20 AM »
People are assuming that Landa knows who Shoshanna is - to me - if he had known, his ego would not have allowed for her to continue living. This over sight could be a way of showing his fallibility thus setting up the scene in the forest at the end where he obviously didin't account for Raines shooting his driver and then carving a swastika on his forehead - forever ruining Landa's chances for a totally consequence free escape. He is forever marked a Nazi.

Just a thought.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2010, 05:43:51 PM by St. Martin the Bald »
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Re: Inglourious Basterds
« Reply #448 on: January 03, 2010, 11:37:26 AM »
People are assuming that Landa knows who Shoshanna is - to me - if he had known, his ego would not have allowed for her to continue living. This over sight could be a way of showing his fallibility thus setting up the scene in the forest at the end where he obviously didin't account for Raines shooting his driver and then carving a cross on his forehead - forever ruining Landa's chances for a totally consequence free escape. He is forever marked a Nazi.

Just a thought.

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libra_1989

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Re: Inglourious Basterds
« Reply #449 on: January 03, 2010, 04:43:42 PM »
I remember thinking that IB wouldn't generate much discussion. wrong. Sorry, WRONG.

  ;D It's just that I tend to enthusiastically participate in lengthy discussions and debates about books and movies I love or admire, and being a major Tarantino-fan, IB is no exception to that rule.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2010, 04:51:50 PM by libra_1989 »