Author Topic: FS Reviews: Avatar/Nine  (Read 17494 times)

FroHam X

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Re: FS Reviews: Avatar/Nine
« Reply #90 on: January 13, 2010, 02:30:41 PM »
Expect that a lot, if not most people still like or love The Dark Knight including myself. I don't think the poor writing of Avatar is a minority opinion, rather it's been a stifled opinion. A case of "sure the writing is terrible, but the movie looks so cool." Now that people have even the slightest sense of distance they begin to realize that they can't ignore the bad writing.
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Melvil

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Re: FS Reviews: Avatar/Nine
« Reply #91 on: January 13, 2010, 02:43:12 PM »
I don't believe the writing is good, nor do I believe it's especially bad. It's merely adequate. As is the story. As I've said before, an adequate story that delivers an exceptional experience is not a major downfall of the movie in my eyes.

Expect that a lot, if not most people still like or love The Dark Knight including myself.

The point I am contending is the claim that people who loved Avatar initially have changed their mind. My comparison to TDK is to point out that it too received a lot of flak after the initial praise, yet is still a widely loved movie. If you want me to believe this isn't true of Avatar, you need to give me a reason to believe it.

Topmounter

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Re: FS Reviews: Avatar/Nine
« Reply #92 on: January 13, 2010, 03:01:00 PM »
I think the reviewer that deemed it both the "best" and "worst" movie that they'd seen was pretty accurate.  It is a pretty awesome spectacle in 3D, but doesn't hold up well upon further consideration.  I can't say I would sit through this movie again, but I would be interested to see the 2D version since it seems like the 3D version loses a lot of the detail and lushness that I see in the HD Avatar trailers.

Now I'm just waiting for the hype to start around the 4-hour super-cut version that claims to address all the theatrical cut's failings ala Kingdom of Heaven.
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Re: FS Reviews: Avatar/Nine
« Reply #93 on: January 13, 2010, 03:08:14 PM »
Now if someone would just use all this high-tech movie wizardry to create a series of decent Dune movies  :o
That would be great!

The miniseries "Dune" and "Children of Dune" were pretty good.  Although the FX was less than stellar.

As a big fan of Dune, they were certainly better than David Lynch's Dune... but wow, I'd love to see these novels get a treatment using the latest technology on par with what Peter Jackson did for LOTR.
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FroHam X

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Re: FS Reviews: Avatar/Nine
« Reply #94 on: January 13, 2010, 03:09:06 PM »
I'm not saying that people are changing their minds, just their perspectives. Whereas coming out of the theatre it was hard to think of anything except for the awesome visuals and effects, with distance it is easier to recognize the importance of story and that the shortcomings in the writing of Avatar maybe mean the film is not as good as upon intial reaction. I'm telling you, the ultimate test will be when it comes out on DVD and Blu-ray. There are going to be a lot of people revisiting it and realizing that it isn't really that captivating of a film without a huge screen and 3D. I compare this to The Dark Knight, where I remember a lot of talk (including from myself) about how amazing the IMAX experience was, but that never changed the effectiveness of the film in standard 35mm or at home. Avatar is a film that relies on its massive visual assault to distract from its subpar writing, and the 3D and big screen do a lot of that heavy lifting.


Now I'm just waiting for the hype to start around the 4-hour super-cut version that claims to address all the theatrical cut's failings ala Kingdom of Heaven.

I have a hard time believing that any amount of additional material would better the perception of the writing without severely hampering pacing and narrative thrust. Kingdom of Heaven was a case in which the film had major plots completely removed that together only took up about 45 minutes of screentime and hugely enhanced what was already a decent story. I doubt that even 30 minutes of extra scenes could erase the terrible dialogue and do much to enhance the thinly drawn characters. There is no way that the general dude would be any less ridiculous with more of his story added.
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Melvil

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Re: FS Reviews: Avatar/Nine
« Reply #95 on: January 13, 2010, 03:32:52 PM »
I think too much emphasis is being put on the visuals. They were certainly breathtaking and technically incredible, but everyone I talked to coming out of the theater (including myself, a major VFX nerd), were much more focused on the great imagination and realization of Pandora and the alien life. The visuals, and even the merely adequate story, were tools to present that, but IMO that was the real star of the movie and why I think it will hold up outside of the theater (as well as any other visually stunning movie does, at least).

The extended cut will be very interesting to see. I'm not holding out much hope for it turning the story into something spectacular, but it sounds like there could be some major stuff missing from the theatrical cut, so I'm curious as to what that will be.

FroHam X

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Re: FS Reviews: Avatar/Nine
« Reply #96 on: January 13, 2010, 03:40:17 PM »
I guess that's where I come in and say that while I agree that there is a lot of attention to detail in the world Cameron built, I don't personally find it all that interesting. A lot of it seems to be put together only to look cool. The creature design is especially annoying.
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Topmounter

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Re: FS Reviews: Avatar/Nine
« Reply #97 on: January 13, 2010, 05:09:49 PM »

I think too much emphasis is being put on the visuals. They were certainly breathtaking and technically incredible, but everyone I talked to coming out of the theater (including myself, a major VFX nerd), were much more focused on the great imagination and realization of Pandora and the alien life.


I guess I don't separate the visuals and the "world" that JC imagineered.  As far as I can tell he started with a 100% clean slate and everything he created was visually stunning by design and not just a happy accident resulting from a scientific vision (or existing IP) of what life might actually be like on Pandora (or any other planet).
« Last Edit: January 13, 2010, 05:19:12 PM by Topmounter »
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Melvil

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Re: FS Reviews: Avatar/Nine
« Reply #98 on: January 13, 2010, 05:13:55 PM »

I think too much emphasis is being put on the visuals. They were certainly breathtaking and technically incredible, but everyone I talked to coming out of the theater (including myself, a major VFX nerd), were much more focused on the great imagination and realization of Pandora and the alien life.


I guess I don't separate the visuals and the "world" that JC imagineered.  As far as I can tell everything he created was visually stunning by design and not just a happy accident resulting from a scientific vision of what life might actually be like on another planet.

The distinction I want to make is that it's not just about "ooohhh, preeettty." For me at least, the entirety of the vision captured my imagination and excited me in a way I rarely experience. That's more than just pretty pictures, so attributing the success of the film to the very superficial level of what it looks like is not accurate by my experience.

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Re: FS Reviews: Avatar/Nine
« Reply #99 on: January 13, 2010, 05:31:42 PM »

I think too much emphasis is being put on the visuals. They were certainly breathtaking and technically incredible, but everyone I talked to coming out of the theater (including myself, a major VFX nerd), were much more focused on the great imagination and realization of Pandora and the alien life.


I guess I don't separate the visuals and the "world" that JC imagineered.  As far as I can tell everything he created was visually stunning by design and not just a happy accident resulting from a scientific vision of what life might actually be like on another planet.

The distinction I want to make is that it's not just about "ooohhh, preeettty." For me at least, the entirety of the vision captured my imagination and excited me in a way I rarely experience. That's more than just pretty pictures, so attributing the success of the film to the very superficial level of what it looks like is not accurate by my experience.

I think I know what you mean, I got that sort of feeling from the Serenity movie (and the ill-fated Firefly TV series)... a world that really stimulated my imagination, a world that I wanted to continue to experience, but for whatever reason, I definitely didn't get that feeling with Pandora.
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