Miyazaki Marathon Film #8 Spirited Away(2001)
Part 1:Welcome! You have entered [Films] at 10:54 pm
[Films]: 'Noke has entered at 10:54 pm
[Films]: ferris has entered at 10:57 pm
[Noke] 10:57 pm:
[ferris] 10:57 pm: well lookie there! We finally got together
[Noke] 10:57 pm: took a while
[Noke] 10:57 pm: but we did it
[ferris] 10:58 pm: I guess it's ok that it's hard. A mere 200 years ago it would have taken 4-6 months in order for you and I to have a conversation
[Noke] 10:58 pm: look at where we've come from 200 years ago!
[ferris] 10:59 pm: And we both look so young still!
[Noke] 10:59 pm: that's the immortality thing
[Noke] 11:00 pm: always look young when youre immortal
[ferris] 11:00 pm: yep.
[ferris] 11:00 pm: This time let's both try to remember to save the chat log. I still can't believe I lost it last time
[Noke] 11:00 pm: I got it this time
[ferris] 11:01 pm: so ....this marathon has taken a lot longer than either of us expected, but we're finally on Spirited Away!
[Noke] 11:01 pm: we did it!
[Noke] 11:01 pm: we made it to this point!
[ferris] 11:02 pm: Yep! Only one to go after this
[ferris] 11:04 pm: ok. Let's start the chat...........NOW
[ferris] 11:04 pm:
[Noke] 11:04 pm: ok, I think you would be more apt to begin this one.
[ferris] 11:05 pm: So on the last chat, I kinda interviewed you for about 15 minutes, want to ask me some questions? Or Vice versa?
[ferris] 11:05 pm: Or what would be a clean way to structure this?
[Noke] 11:05 pm: I'll ask you
[ferris] 11:05 pm: cool
[ferris] 11:06 pm: I could seriously go on and on and on
[Noke] 11:06 pm: I'm wondering, this is an amazing film let me say off the bat, but for me, this is middle of the road Miyazaki
[Noke] 11:06 pm: so I'm wondering what elements for you elevate this film above the rest of his work?
[ferris] 11:07 pm: What elevates this film for me are 1) the characters and 2) the incredible imagery - in particular 3 all-time jaw-dropping great scenes.
[ferris] 11:08 pm: Plus it was my first Miyazaki - the first time I discovered such a thing could be done on film
[ferris] 11:08 pm: It broke down all my stereotypes of what anime was -
[Noke] 11:09 pm: I think we'll get to characters in a bit, so what exactly scenes would you pick out in particular?
[Noke] 11:09 pm: it was mine too, and I loved it then, but I still have been more impressed by his later stuff
[Noke] 11:09 pm: oh, and I totally agree on the imagery, one of the most beautiful films ever made
[ferris] 11:10 pm: I think early on in the film there was one scene that broke the film wide open for me. It was the scene where the riverboat crosses the lake (that was a field a few hours earlier) and a bunch of spirits come out.
[Noke] 11:10 pm: ah
[Noke] 11:11 pm: I love that image
[Noke] 11:11 pm: it's not one that particular stuck out for me but I love it
[ferris] 11:12 pm: well, for a first Miyazaki - this is the first time I saw something that you'd never see in a Disney, a Pixar, a DreamWorks or any other animation I would have been exposed to at that point.
[ferris] 11:12 pm: plus the music in that scene was this fabulous hybrid of western and classic Japanese. Very cool
[Noke] 11:13 pm: I feel as though the first moments when Chihiro (PS, do you call her Sen or Chihiro?)
[Noke] 11:13 pm: -is running through the spirit world in fright is gorgeous, and one of my favs from the movie too
[ferris] 11:13 pm: which scene are you referring to?
[Noke] 11:14 pm: the moment when, straight after her parents get turned into pigs, she's running through the city
[Noke] 11:15 pm: which includes the moment you are talking about
[ferris] 11:15 pm: true.
[Noke] 11:15 pm: the shot of the city in bright lights over the dark water, I mean breathtaking
[Noke] 11:16 pm: sorry, I'm watching that scene right now and noticing little things
[ferris] 11:16 pm: exactly. so great.
Cool.
[Noke] 11:16 pm: like the way the creatures flow from being masks to being full bodied creatures is amazing
[Noke] 11:17 pm: and the way that if Pixar did this it, it would look nice and confirm to the world, but the details in the animation wouldn't capture your imagination like they do here
[ferris] 11:19 pm: Right. You hit it on the head. Pixar asks - "how can we make this look real", and Miyazaki seems to take full advantage of what the medium offers, but seems somehow to complete comply with the rules of physics - we are in a weird universe, but it's completely grounded
[Noke] 11:19 pm: I'm not sure about grounded, grounded indicates that it consists within the world we know
[Noke] 11:20 pm: I think he creates his own worlds, each one different from the next, and when he does everything within that world conforms to it and heightens it
[Noke] 11:20 pm: and he brings us so well into the world that we believe it because we are living in that world with its rules and morals
[ferris] 11:21 pm: I think we're saying the same thing. It's kinda what I meant by grounded
[ferris] 11:21 pm: "believable" is maybe a better word
[Noke] 11:21 pm: I think we are too
[ferris] 11:21 pm: So you want to hear my second scene?
[Noke] 11:22 pm: before we get to that (and we will), watching the scene again there was this great detail I noticed
[ferris] 11:22 pm: sure!
[Noke] 11:23 pm: there's a moment before the boat appears where Chihiro is sitting on the bank and she's saying to herself "It's all a dream, It's all a dream, disappear, disappear" as you would, and it's at that moment that we start to realise that she is starting to fade away
[Noke] 11:23 pm: as if the only way for the creatures to disappear is for her to disappear somewhere else
[Noke] 11:23 pm: and I kinda loved that touch
[Noke] 11:24 pm: alright, your second scene?
[ferris] 11:25 pm: BTW: that was a nice perception you had
[Noke] 11:25 pm: twas just a little note I had
[ferris] 11:25 pm: The second scene was the bathhouse with the river spirit
[Noke] 11:26 pm: ok
[ferris] 11:26 pm: This was just a jaw-dropping scene for me. The whole thing. It could have been its own short film
[ferris] 11:26 pm: from the time they start filling the tub, until the moment where the workers find the gold scattered on the floor
[Noke] 11:27 pm: are you saying you thought the moments afterwards, when the dragon appears wasn't as effective, or that's just the cut-off point of the scene?
[ferris] 11:28 pm: Just a cut-off point
[Noke] 11:28 pm: fair enough
[ferris] 11:28 pm: The whole fishhook thing really spoke volumes for me
[ferris] 11:29 pm: ..being a long-time outdoorsman who spent an entire childhood swimming in freshwater lakes - you learned to grow a pet peeve of lost fishhooks and line in the water
[Noke] 11:29 pm: was it simply the brilliance of the scene or did you have some personal connection to it to?
[Noke] 11:29 pm: oh, nm
[Noke] 11:29 pm:
[ferris] 11:29 pm: In fact they say there is 200 miles of fishing line in Puget Sound alone (Seattle)
[ferris] 11:30 pm: I don't know - I'm trying to verbalize why that all was so cool -
[Noke] 11:30 pm: ooh
[ferris] 11:30 pm: it just was!
[Noke] 11:30 pm: I agree
[Noke] 11:31 pm: one detail I love, in particular, is the way water is animated
[Noke] 11:31 pm: and watching it crash against the bathhouse walls
[ferris] 11:31 pm: yes!
[ferris] 11:31 pm: They're pulling on what they think is a thorn and it ends up being a bike
[Noke] 11:31 pm: I love that too
[ferris] 11:31 pm: the last line of the scene, where the river god says "thank you".....
[ferris] 11:32 pm: ...the Japanese literally translates "it feels good"
[Noke] 11:32 pm: I heard, did you say that in your review?
[Noke] 11:32 pm: I know I heard it somewhere
[ferris] 11:33 pm: I mentioned that in my review. I read that in one of a dozen articles I read on the film, but I don't remember which one off the top of my head
[Noke] 11:33 pm: ah
[ferris] 11:35 pm: it's also the first moment we get a sense that the Witch (name?!) is not this one-dimensional bad guy
[Noke] 11:36 pm: oh, definitely
[ferris] 11:36 pm: And I love that too - there are no black and white good and bad characters in the film. The "good guys" are flawed and the "bad guys" are not completely unsympathetic
[ferris] 11:36 pm: I NNNNNEEED that in a film.
[Noke] 11:36 pm: but, I think there's a much bigger split then in Mononoke, for example
[ferris] 11:36 pm: I can't connect to characters that are too unrealistically one way or the other.
[ferris] 11:36 pm: This is why films like "Doubt" will always be high on my list
[Noke] 11:37 pm: I think what happens is instead of turning into the grey, Miyazaki simply makes some people sympathetic or unsympathetic, but none villainous or heroic
[Noke] 11:37 pm: there's no true antagonist, just people who stand somewhat in Chihiro's way
[Noke] 11:37 pm: and there's a lot of reversals of character
[Noke] 11:37 pm: which is awesome
[ferris] 11:37 pm: good observation. I'm thinking through the other films at how that manifests itself
[ferris] 11:38 pm: I think Naussica is the least applicable
[ferris] 11:38 pm: seems much more black and white
[ferris] 11:38 pm: (but I'm struggling to remember now...)
[Noke] 11:39 pm: I think Castle in the Sky is the least applicable, as well as Nausicaa
[ferris] 11:39 pm: Yeah. Luke Skywalker is pretty unilaterally creepy in that
[Noke] 11:39 pm: in the best way though
[ferris] 11:39 pm: LOL - yeah
[Noke] 11:40 pm: Kiki has no antagonist, neither does Totoro, Howl's has a much more complex storyline
[Noke] 11:40 pm: Mononoke has none, spirited has none
[ferris] 11:40 pm: I love films without an antagonist
[Noke] 11:40 pm: but I think the difference is Mononoke is all about the characters who are fighting against each other, and Spirited Away is all about Chihiro
[ferris] 11:40 pm: that might be the one constant in my top 100 films
[Noke] 11:41 pm: I do too, but I do love a good antagonist as well
[ferris] 11:41 pm: Yes! There are a few great ones on my list !
(Jaws, There Will Be Blood, Raiders, Empire Strikes Back...)
[Noke] 11:42 pm: Well, There Will Be Blood doesn't really count cause it's a character piece about an antagonist
[ferris] 11:42 pm: so third scene? And then I'll turn the focus on you for a bit
[Noke] 11:42 pm: yes, lets get back on track!
[Noke] 11:42 pm: what is the third scene
[Noke] 11:42 pm: ?
[ferris] 11:42 pm: right
[ferris] 11:43 pm: The third scene I love in the film, is the one that iced this film as a top 20 film in my book
[Noke] 11:43 pm: I might know where you're going
[ferris] 11:44 pm: want to guess?
[Noke] 11:44 pm: nah, surprise me
[ferris] 11:44 pm: The train ride out to the sister's house
[Noke] 11:44 pm: I knew it, and it's my fav scene too
[ferris] 11:45 pm: the combination of the gorgeous animation, the breathtaking music, the mood, and just the fact that the entire action of the movie came to a halt and we just sat in silent awe waiting for what would come next
[ferris] 11:46 pm: I can't think of another scene in our Miyazaki marathon that even comes close to being as great. Maybe the Castle in Castle in the Sky is close
[ferris] 11:46 pm: (where the robot hand the girl a flower, etc)
[Noke] 11:46 pm: I know
[Noke] 11:47 pm: you nailed everything about it, I mean how many animated movies can you describe as "Slow, meditative, and gorgeous"
[Noke] 11:47 pm: not counting Miyazaki's entire oeuvre, of course
[Noke] 11:48 pm: I'd say this, the castle in the sky in Laputa, the walking on air scene in howl's, and the hug in Mononoke are my fav Miyazaki moments
[ferris] 11:49 pm: I need to rewatch Howls still. I watched it almost a year ago now. I have it on the TiVo downstairs
[ferris] 11:49 pm: I can't remember much except Billy Crystal was fire
[ferris] 11:49 pm:
[ferris] 11:49 pm: It'll be interesting to watch with the entire Miyazaki cannon as a backdrop
[Noke] 11:50 pm: as a backdrop?
[ferris] 11:50 pm: BTW: my son, so taken by the film, immediately went and read the book that was the source material. ......completely different! Oh well
[ferris] 11:51 pm: backdrop ...umm.....how about "it'll be interesting to watch through the lens of having seen all his prior films"
[ferris] 11:51 pm: context
[Noke] 11:51 pm: aw, course
[Noke] 11:51 pm: silly me
[ferris] 11:52 pm: the hug in Mononoke was pretty awesome
[Noke] 11:52 pm: I'm glad we agree
[Noke] 11:52 pm: anyways, I love that moment
[Noke] 11:53 pm: just the way the colours are used, the black of the passengers and no face compared to the blue skies compared to the red interiors, and Chihiro's expression
[ferris] 11:54 pm: so right....everything about that scene is worth mentioning....the platforms that speed by, the two sidekicks looking out the window, that house on an island off in the distance....
[ferris] 11:54 pm: ...and the fact that they are getting to the edge of the "lake" when they get to their stop.
[ferris] 11:55 pm: ...then to top it off, the greeting by that hopping lamp - just made me giggle when they bowed to each other. So clever
[Noke] 11:55 pm: the lamp was great
[Noke] 11:55 pm: I'm getting chills right now
[ferris] 11:56 pm: And "no face" is such an awesome character.
[Noke] 11:56 pm: he's one of my favourites
[ferris] 11:56 pm: just wants a little love and attention, that's all. poor guy
[Noke] 11:57 pm: the way he can go to being a monster to something so pitiful and beautiful so quickly and yet it is totally believable!
[ferris] 11:57 pm: we should do a favorite characters list at the end of the marathon
[Noke] 11:57 pm: we so should
[ferris] 11:58 pm: So let me ask you a couple things....
[Noke] 11:58 pm: actually, just a sec
[ferris] 11:58 pm: ok
[Noke] 11:58 pm: You haven't heard my favourite moment
[ferris] 11:58 pm: that's what I was just going to ask! great minds think alike
[Noke] 11:58 pm: and we are great minds
[Noke] 11:58 pm:
[Noke] 12:00 am: so, my favourite....IS the train ride and the lamp and the walk up to Zaniba's house, but we've already talked about
[Noke] 12:00 am: next to that is a scene that occurs just before that, and before the scene where no-face goes insane
[Noke] 12:01 am: It's the smallest of moments, it's when Chihiro has just fallen into the boiler room with Haku, in dragon form
[ferris] 12:01 am: oh yes
[Noke] 12:03 am: and he spits out the seal and the slug, and she kills the slug, and Kamaji goes "evil be gone"
[Noke] 12:03 am: and then there's this brilliant moment, where the little sootballs (Hi Melvil!) are crowding around the footprint left in the ground when Chihiro steps on the slug
[ferris] 12:04 am: that's my kid's favorite scene.
[Noke] 12:04 am: and Ubaba's baby, as a rat, goes over and steps on the foot
[Noke] 12:04 am: a shiver runs up his spine, and the sootballs strike his fingers like Chihiro's a second ago
[ferris] 12:04 am: right.
[Noke] 12:05 am: and it is just the funniest and most brilliant moment, I can't describe it
[Noke] 12:05 am: the way the sootballs start celebrating is just brilliant
[ferris] 12:05 am: so awesome. My 13 year old son had that exact moment captured as his facebook avatar for about 4 months
[Noke] 12:05 am: your son has good taste
[ferris] 12:05 am: in fact we've kinda adopted that move into the ferris family lexicon.
[Noke] 12:06 am: awesome
[ferris] 12:06 am: someone will look at someone else with fingers pointed together and the other will slice through it. Usually right after something frustrating happens (like spilled milk or something)
[Noke] 12:07 am: I'm grinning from ear to ear
[Noke] 12:07 am: your family is cooler than mine
[ferris] 12:07 am: I hate to say I have to leave now
[ferris] 12:07 am: I'm meeting SteveKimes
[ferris] 12:07 am: to watch Days of Heaven together. We're meeting in about 20 minutes
[Noke] 12:07 am: I forgot!
[Noke] 12:07 am: Happy birthday!
[ferris] 12:08 am: thanks
[Noke] 12:08 am: wow
[Noke] 12:08 am: on DVD?
[Noke] 12:08 am: you better love it, It's one of my personal favs
[ferris] 12:08 am: better - projection! he's secured a church somewhere and he's got a cool little portable video/sound setup.
[Noke] 12:08 am: JEALOUS!!!
[ferris] 12:09 am: LOL
[Noke] 12:09 am: That's like one of the 5 movies I want to see on the big screen
[ferris] 12:09 am: You want to copy what we're written so far?
[Noke] 12:09 am: I've already been doing it
[Noke] 12:09 am: anyways, before you leave, quickly
[ferris] 12:09 am: yeah
[Noke] 12:09 am: would you like to continue another time?
[Noke] 12:09 am: I'm babysitting tomorrow night (ugh) so I'll be here
[Noke] 12:10 am: babysitting my sisters
[ferris] 12:10 am: sure! I feel like there are some thematic things we should touch on
[Noke] 12:10 am: let's do that
[Noke] 12:10 am: enjoy days of heaven!
[Noke] 12:10 am: happy birthday!
[ferris] 12:10 am: tomorrow around the same time would work for me. I'll watch for you on the PM
[ferris] 12:10 am: thanks!
[Films]: ferris has left at 12:11 am
[Noke] 12:11 am: ah well
Part 2:Welcome! You have entered [Films] at 9:53 pm
[Films]: 'Noke has entered at 9:53 pm
[Films]: ferris has entered at 9:55 pm
[ferris] 9:56 pm: hello!
[Noke] 9:56 pm: ah hello!
[ferris] 9:57 pm: how are the football matches going today?
[Noke] 9:58 pm: apparently south africa v. Mexico was a good start, but I didn't get to see it
[Noke] 9:58 pm: France v Uruguay was a bad match, but I'm happy with the result
[Noke] 9:58 pm: looks like South Africa and Mexico are the stronger sides in this group
[ferris] 9:59 pm: Even as far away as Portland we are hearing quite a buzz about the games - even though people seem to be generally pretty luke warm about it out here
[Noke] 10:00 pm: thats unfortunate
[Noke] 10:00 pm: maybe news will pick up tomorrow, as it's the US's first match, against england no less
[ferris] 10:00 pm: ESPN is pushing that matchup really hard
[Noke] 10:01 pm: I bet they are
[Noke] 10:01 pm: I'm more excited about the other two matchups, actually
[ferris] 10:01 pm: what are the other two matchups?
[Noke] 10:02 pm: Greece vs South Korea, and Argentina vs Nigeria
[ferris] 10:07 pm: so do you want to segue into Spirited Away?
[Noke] 10:07 pm: alright
[Noke] 10:07 pm: I did want to ask you something
[ferris] 10:08 pm: sure
[Noke] 10:08 pm: about Spirited Away
[Noke] 10:08 pm: and it'll help start our discussion
[ferris] 10:08 pm: ok....
[Noke] 10:09 pm: yesterday you said how the imagery, the characters and those three scenes were elevated this, for you, above other Miyazaki (and most other movies in general)
[Noke] 10:09 pm: so I wanted to ask about the characters, what exactly made them more interesting in this film then in other Miyazaki?
[ferris] 10:10 pm: Good question
[ferris] 10:10 pm: In general they are more flawed, more realistic
[ferris] 10:11 pm: ...as much as something in that film can BE realistic!
[ferris] 10:12 pm: I ask myself a question at the end of a movie, "Do I know enough about the character that I be able to order off a menu for them at dinner?"
[ferris] 10:12 pm: (question not to be taken literally - especially when food is part of the movie!)
[Noke] 10:14 pm: Hmmm
[Noke] 10:15 pm: I like that idea
[Noke] 10:15 pm: sort of, how well do I know this character
[ferris] 10:15 pm: right...
[Noke] 10:16 pm: but I didn't feel an affinity for Sen here as much as I did for, say Patsu in Castle in the Sky
[Noke] 10:16 pm: I guess her character did hold me back a tiny bit
[Noke] 10:16 pm: just a tiny bit
[ferris] 10:16 pm: Was Patsu the boy or the girl?
[Noke] 10:16 pm: the boy
[ferris] 10:17 pm: I loved Sen. Easily my favorite character in the Miyazaki cannon.
[Noke] 10:17 pm: I love her too
[Noke] 10:17 pm: I need to watch the Japanese version, cause I don't like the English dub of her that much
[ferris] 10:18 pm: With Patsu - it was interesting - he kept doing things that were superhuman for a kid his age
[Noke] 10:18 pm: really? What exactly would you point to?
[ferris] 10:18 pm: Like his ability to climb up that pillar in Laputa
[ferris] 10:19 pm: Which is fine, but I like a little bit of context for what makes him special....not just that the plot calls for it
[Noke] 10:19 pm: hmmm
[Noke] 10:19 pm: I can see that, it just made sense to me though,
[Noke] 10:19 pm: I dunno
[ferris] 10:19 pm: this is a VERY minor point
[Noke] 10:20 pm: but I love the arc Sen goes through, from being a very spoiled kid to learning to fend for herself
[Noke] 10:20 pm: and how this change is really gradual and subtle
[ferris] 10:20 pm: right
[Noke] 10:20 pm: totally believable
[ferris] 10:20 pm: Exactly - well said
[Films]: Agent York has entered at 10:20 pm
[Agent York] 10:20 pm: Howdy friends
[ferris] 10:21 pm: Hey FLY - hey Noke and I are doing a Spirited Away chat for our marathon....
[ferris] 10:22 pm: (Miyazaki marathon)
[ferris] 10:22 pm: care to listen in?
[ferris] 10:23 pm: (we're saving the transcript for our review)
[Agent York] 10:23 pm: I'm about to go yak
[Agent York] 10:23 pm: I just wanted to stop in when I saw you guys where in here
[Agent York] 10:23 pm: So I could say you guys are tops.
[Agent York] 10:23 pm: But then I learned about a Spirited Away chat
[Agent York] 10:23 pm: So
[Agent York] 10:24 pm: You guys are still tops
[Agent York] 10:24 pm: But Spirited Away
[ferris] 10:24 pm: lol
[Films]: Agent York has left at 10:24 pm
[Films]: Agent York has entered at 10:24 pm
[Agent York] 10:24 pm: Totally got logged out
[ferris] 10:25 pm: So, Noke....did I kinda answer your question about the characters?
[Noke] 10:26 pm: I guess so
[Noke] 10:26 pm: I think it may simply be a personal reaction for us
[ferris] 10:26 pm: Well I guess in the end it comes down to personal preference.
[Noke] 10:26 pm: I guess so
[Noke] 10:26 pm: I think the characters in Mononoke make a bigger impact for me then spirited Away, and for you vice versa
[Films]: Agent York has left at 10:27 pm
[Noke] 10:27 pm: I think he does a good job on both films, but there's more emphasis on the characters in Mononoke, while spirited away is one character and the characters around her who affect her
[ferris] 10:27 pm: I didn't really understand everyone's motivations in Mononoke. I'll admit that may be my own failing. I hate to compare the two because they are such different films,
[Noke] 10:27 pm: they REALLY are
[Noke] 10:28 pm: The motivations in Mononoke are muddled and sometimes not defined, but I understand
[Noke] 10:28 pm: both the motivations, and why you didn't quite get it
[ferris] 10:29 pm: one thing that did turn me OFF of Spirited Away was Zaniba (sp?)
[ferris] 10:30 pm: ...not the character, but her rendering...
[Noke] 10:30 pm: the twin sister?
[ferris] 10:30 pm: Well both
[Noke] 10:30 pm: the way she was drawn or written?
[ferris] 10:30 pm: Their drawings were a bit over the top in the grotesque department.
[ferris] 10:30 pm: drawn
[ferris] 10:30 pm: "grotesque" is too strong a word
[ferris] 10:30 pm: there is one scene in the nursery where she's yelling and it just gets a bit 'out there'
[Noke] 10:30 pm: I disagree on that front
[Noke] 10:31 pm: I feel as though Ubaba is a bit too villainous, she's not near a villain but I wanted a bit more of a grey area
[Noke] 10:32 pm: or just a bit more of something to latch onto
[Noke] 10:32 pm: but the way she's drawn I thought worked really well, it fits the bossy Ubaba and the kind, grandmotherly Zaniba
[Noke] 10:32 pm: I guess so, but that scene in the nursery is something else entirely
[Noke] 10:33 pm: that's Miyazaki going overboard with the character, with her hair flying and everything
[ferris] 10:32 pm: huh - I latched onto her character great! I thought she was pretty layered. VERY interesting
[ferris] 10:33 pm: See - its further evidence that we bring our own backgrounds into things and infuse them into the characters on screen.
[Noke] 10:33 pm: and that's why we react differently to certain films, yah, I agree
[Noke] 10:33 pm: anyways, I can see how you latched onto her, makes sense, just for me personally I needed just that bit more
[Noke] 10:34 pm: but I still think she works really well
[ferris] 10:34 pm: well - in either event - certainly we are discussing two films where Miyazaki gives lots of room for people to bring their own stuff to it
[Noke] 10:36 pm: yep, definitely
[Noke] 10:36 pm: who was your favourite character?
[ferris] 10:36 pm: So did you want to talk about any thematic elements?
[ferris] 10:36 pm: LOL
[ferris] 10:36 pm: I'll answer yours then I'll ask you the same question
[ferris] 10:36 pm: I though No Face was the best
[ferris] 10:37 pm: Very unique character - not something I'd seen before
[ferris] 10:37 pm: Him drinking tea at Zaniba's house was cracking me up
[Noke] 10:38 pm: and eating the cheesecake
[ferris] 10:38 pm: right.
[ferris] 10:39 pm: How about you? What was your favorite character?
[Noke] 10:39 pm: well, no face
[Noke] 10:39 pm: and, of course, the soot creatures
[Noke] 10:39 pm: they are just amazing in everyway
[ferris] 10:40 pm: ah yes
[Noke] 10:40 pm: the way they go crazy over the food is brilliant
[ferris] 10:40 pm: and the biggest laugh of the movie when they all drop the rocks on themselves
[Noke] 10:41 pm: of course, that was amazing
[Noke] 10:41 pm: and when they get mad and form a barrier around Sen
[ferris] 10:41 pm: so do you like these guys better, or those white forest sprites in Mononoke?
[Noke] 10:41 pm: oh god
[Noke] 10:41 pm: ummm...
[Noke] 10:41 pm: I'm gonna go with.....the forest sprites
[Noke] 10:42 pm: I guess the soot creatures are a better creation, but the forest sprites contribute more to the film
[Noke] 10:42 pm: like how they are falling from the trees when
the forest spirit loses his head[Noke] 10:42 pm: and the wondertastical final shot
[Noke] 10:42 pm: you'd go with the soot creatures?
[ferris] 10:43 pm: tough one.
[ferris] 10:43 pm: I might go with the forest sprites too
[Noke] 10:43 pm: ooh
[ferris] 10:43 pm: They're so subtle in their awesomeness
[Noke] 10:43 pm: we should totally make this a poll question
[ferris] 10:44 pm: yeah. good idea
[Noke] 10:44 pm: shall we move onto themes?
[ferris] 10:44 pm: sure
[Noke] 10:45 pm: what did you take away from this movie the most?
[ferris] 10:46 pm: Well, the whole river spirit thing....man's affect on the natural course of a river
[Noke] 10:46 pm: basically Haku's plotline?
[Noke] 10:46 pm: how a river became a worker in a bathhouse?
[ferris] 10:47 pm: having lived in Houston where all the river banks are literally cemented into place. it's awful
[Noke] 10:47 pm: oh
[ferris] 10:47 pm: how the river is "dead" like the spirits and comes to life only and night when the spirits do
[Noke] 10:47 pm: hmmm...
[ferris] 10:48 pm: that the building of the (human) park caused the original waterway to be diverted
[ferris] 10:48 pm: very much harkening the issues of the big dig in neighboring China
[Noke] 10:49 pm: no, that's an element
[Noke] 10:49 pm: I didn't really see that but it makes sense
[ferris] 10:49 pm: well it's there - it's not the main theme obviously, but there are a few explicit references...
[Noke] 10:50 pm: indeed
[ferris] 10:50 pm: there are two "rivers" so to speak - the one the train drives through, and the boy who forgot his name
[Noke] 10:51 pm: the one the train drives through is still there, it just seems to be forgotten
[ferris] 10:51 pm: it's not there at the beginning of the film....the father says "a river once was here, but got diverted when they put the theme park in"
[ferris] 10:52 pm: then that evening when Chihiro starts to "fade", the water appears....this is when that riverboat shows up
[Noke] 10:52 pm: I can see that
[Noke] 10:52 pm: the river comes to life with the spirits
[ferris] 10:52 pm: then it's gone again at the end, when they leave.
[Noke] 10:52 pm: oh yah
[Noke] 10:52 pm: when the spirits leave
[Noke] 10:53 pm: it's interesting to see that
[ferris] 10:53 pm: I'm reading a lot into it, but I love river imagery in films.
[ferris] 10:53 pm: Everything from Fitzcaraldo to Pocahontas
[Noke] 10:54 pm: River imagery IS wonderful
[Noke] 10:54 pm: one of the reasons I love Deliverance so much
[ferris] 10:54 pm: you want to hit on a theme that you latch onto?
[Noke] 10:55 pm: well, there's a great argument for how the way we, and especially Americans, live, the capitalist society, is going to destroy us, and makes us lazy, and how the old way of simply making your way in the world by working is what society should be
[ferris] 10:57 pm: yep - that's right there front and center - the parents and the food, the workers and the gold, and...(dang I'm so bad with names) the witch and her baby
[Noke] 10:57 pm: there's the great moment where the parents are consuming food, and Sen is getting worried and the dad replies "don't worry, I've got credit cards"
[ferris] 10:57 pm: yeah -
[ferris] 10:58 pm: I teach a "cut up your cards and get out of debt" financial class - you can be assured I got a good chuckle out of THAT one!
[Noke] 10:58 pm: And the life of someone who does work hard but is purely about profit, Ubaba (there's your name
doesn't notice her baby as much, like when Haku says "something important is missing to you" the first thing she does is look at the gold
[Noke] 10:59 pm: but then the people who are heroised are Sen's sort of mentor in the bathhouse, the older girl, and Kamaji, the boiler man, and Zaniba, the people who simply just make enough to get by
[ferris] 10:59 pm: well - and there's a deeper parenting message there....
[ferris] 11:00 pm: ....we have a whole generation of kids with both parents working to afford lots of nice stuff for their kids - in the name of love
[Noke] 11:00 pm: but we should really be loving our kids through love, not money
[ferris] 11:01 pm: yep.
[Noke] 11:02 pm: definitely
[ferris] 11:03 pm: well....I might be wrapping up....Are there any other topics you want to cover?
[Noke] 11:03 pm: how about the mysticism?
[Noke] 11:04 pm: the idea that there's another world beyond ours filled with creatures and magic
[Noke] 11:04 pm: and how it fits in with real life
[Noke] 11:04 pm: Steve talked about it in his essay, and I agree with this, that Miyazaki always puts world son screen which makes me look for mysticism and magic in my own life.
[Noke] 11:05 pm: and believe in these alternate worlds
[Noke] 11:05 pm: what do you think?
[ferris] 11:07 pm: I guess I don't have much to add to that. As a theme that is far less interesting to me, because it's been done so many times, from Wizard of Oz to Pan's Labyrinth, but Miyazaki does it really well
[ferris] 11:07 pm: I do like the theme natural things being embodied by spirits -
[Noke] 11:07 pm: mmhm
[ferris] 11:08 pm: a question more discussed in Mononoke
[ferris] 11:08 pm: and Laputa (thinking through the others....)
[Noke] 11:08 pm: Totoro
[ferris] 11:08 pm: yes - good
[Noke] 11:09 pm: Not so much Howl's or Porco though, I don't think
[Noke] 11:09 pm: Nausicaa maybe
[ferris] 11:09 pm: oh yes very true
[ferris] 11:09 pm: the whole living/dying forest theme
[ferris] 11:10 pm: it's the Avatar thing - a natural connectiveness
[ferris] 11:10 pm: and a balance that shouldn't be upset
[Noke] 11:10 pm: although Avatar does it by ACTUALLY having the people connect to the forest and nature
[ferris] 11:10 pm: lol
[ferris] 11:11 pm: what are you saying? not subtle? LOL
[ferris] 11:11 pm: Tell me your thoughts about the mysticism?
[Noke] 11:11 pm: Well, most of avatar is actually a moving subtle, arty piece, so it does fit
[ferris] 11:12 pm: yes - I especially like the subtle anti-military theme - it's hard to notice, but it's there on repeated viewings
[Noke] 11:12 pm: huh?
[Noke] 11:13 pm: is it really anti military? I totally didnt see that
[Noke] 11:13 pm: this movie works on so many levels
[ferris] 11:13 pm: yeah let's switch topics!!
[ferris] 11:13 pm:
[Noke] 11:13 pm: lets!
[ferris] 11:15 pm: anyways I have to go soon, so do you want to start to wrap up? Did you still have some thematic themes to point out?
[Noke] 11:15 pm: I think I'm spirited awayed out
[Noke] 11:15 pm: I could talk more but I don't have anything else to say
[ferris] 11:15 pm: yep - I 'm about there too.
[Noke] 11:15 pm: you? Have nothing left to say about this movie?
[Noke] 11:15 pm: impossible
[ferris] 11:15 pm: It's probably at this point more than anyone will read. You are given my full editor's blessing
[Noke] 11:16 pm:
[ferris] 11:16 pm: as they say "you get final cut"
[Noke] 11:16 pm: should I include FLY popping in and us talking about football/days of heaven and paris texas?
[ferris] 11:17 pm: Put all that in the trailer
[ferris] 11:17 pm: with some Avatar footage
[Noke] 11:17 pm: of crouse!
[Noke] 11:17 pm: *course
[Noke] 11:18 pm: maybe cut out the days of heaven Paris Texas stuff, as you'll probably do that for your classics marathon
[ferris] 11:18 pm: yeah
[ferris] 11:18 pm: Ok - I'm going to run. Gotta to take a kid to a blood test. I'm twice as nervous as he is
[Noke] 11:18 pm: oh dear
[Noke] 11:18 pm: good luck!
[Noke] 11:18 pm: ok
[ferris] 11:18 pm: thanks!
[Noke] 11:18 pm: cya!
[Films]: ferris has left at 11:19 pm