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Author Topic: 'Noke and Ferris do a little 'Zaki (Miyazaki Marathon + 1 Takahata!)  (Read 37696 times)

FLYmeatwad

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Re: 'Noke and Ferris do a little 'Zaki (Miyazaki Marathon + 1 Takahata!)
« Reply #110 on: May 21, 2010, 07:04:30 AM »
I thought less of Mononoke the second time.  :-\

Yep.

Melvil

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Re: 'Noke and Ferris do a little 'Zaki (Miyazaki Marathon + 1 Takahata!)
« Reply #111 on: May 21, 2010, 12:49:44 PM »
I'm with steve, Mononoke is one that has grown on me with each viewing.

Beavermoose

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Re: 'Noke and Ferris do a little 'Zaki (Miyazaki Marathon + 1 Takahata!)
« Reply #112 on: May 22, 2010, 09:50:11 AM »
I think "Cagliostro" is underrated. Miyazaki films have a lot of charm and quirk but very little straight out over-the-top slapsticky humor and I really enjoyed it in that film. The car chase in the beginning and the part where he's swimming against the current in the sewers are really funny. Lupin reminds me of an Indiana Jones type character, he's a lot of fun.

'Noke

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Re: 'Noke and Ferris do a little 'Zaki (Miyazaki Marathon + 1 Takahata!)
« Reply #113 on: May 31, 2010, 08:21:20 PM »

Princess Mononoke

As film buffs we seem to have some sort of obligation to having a favourite film of all time, and when it comes down to picking a favourite film, or even a top ten, the choices you make become intensely personal. See, I think The Godfather is the acme of the filmic medium, that and Once Upon a Time in the West. The audacity of the storytelling, the perfection of the craft, the characters which seem to fuel every single stereotype and never seem to blemish them, the perfect craft, performances, and on and on. They are the pinnacle of the medium, yet they don’t invoke a personal reaction. I enjoy watching them, course I do, and they would both make a top 20 (Godfather would make top 20, OUATITW would make my top 5) if I made one nowadays (actually, Miller’s Crossing may be perfect too...never mind. This thread will go nowhere.). They are fantastic, but they are just pieces of work. Movies that make my top 10, movies I adore, they become a part of your life in a way. Maybe they dictate your world view; maybe they become something you think about on a regular basis, something you quote endlessly. Maybe these characters bring themselves into your world, suddenly become the people you know, the people you hang out with, people you recognize in everyday life, or maybe they are unique characters, ones you have never seen before and are fascinated by. My favourite film...It feels like it does all of these things. It speaks to me more personally far more than any other film has, while being more perfect in craft and story and characters and emotion than any other movie I’ve seen:


If I were to make a list of my filmmakers, Hayao Miyazaki would be an easy number one. I’ve loved every film of his, and I am captivated by the images he creates and the characters he gives us. For me, there are many filmmakers who would influence me as filmmakers, influence my filmmaking style, but I think Miyazaki may be the only person who I built part of my lifestyle around his films, the mysticism and sense of wonder in his movies makes me look for that wonder in real life. You know? I guess what I’m saying is, I feel as though the spirituality and the magic and the emotional power of these films have become a part of my life, a huge part.



Which is strange, because Mononoke may be the least “Magical” of Miyazaki’s films. There is magic and mysticism, mostly brought to us in the guise of the Great Forest Spirit. While most creatures in Mononoke are simply large and powerful animals, the great forest spirit is a deer with a face. All characters in Mononoke have sides, and they all face the burden of the world they live in but the forest Spirit has the same face, one of peace. He is the god of life and death, and he controls the fate of all the characters in this world. He is the god of all creatures, and everyone reacts to him differently. The Wolves, the boars, and San all react to him with respect, devotion, as we would look up to a god, and they do not dare desecrate him otherwise he will act their vengeance upon him. The humans all look upon him with fear. They are scared the forest spirit will be mad for their actions, for cutting up the forest and using it to produce Iron, and they dare not wander through its forests for fear of angering him. When Ashitaka and Kouroku wander through the forest, he is constantly on edge all time, and when they return the villagers are all surprised they passed through the “Forbidden Forest” so quickly. This is strange because the sequence where they travel through the forbidden forest, and Ashitaka gets his first glimpse of the forest spirit, is largely harmless, a sequence built around establishing the forest itself while the conflict doesn’t get established until later on. Lady Hiboshi, however, thinks of it as just another creature to be killed, just another one in her way, and it’s this pigheadedness from both sides that makes this conflict so difficult to resolve.



Ashitaka is the only person who seems to understand exactly what the forest spirit is and how to react to him. He is at first in awe, the image and figure of the spirit is magical and beautiful, awe inspiring, so like the audience he is shocked by this image, the bright light pouring around a deer like figure, which leaves small piles of leave with every step it takes. But he understands exactly what the forest spirit is, it is fate. It does not judge you for your actions, nor take prejudice. It is a god of life and death, but what Ashitaka realises and everyone else fails to is it is nothing else. Why do we fear something of such beauty, and something which does not alter its mind? When it chooses to remove you of life, it does so not because you have peeved it off, but because it is your time. And if it is your time all you can do is face up to it.



This mysticism in the image of the Great Forest Spirit is the most spiritual, magical moment in the movie. This doesn’t mean to say it is the only beautiful moment in the movie, but there are certain moments in Miyazaki films that are just pure magic, where problems have dissolved away and all that’s left is the magic and the images and the feeling of wonder in what is happening. I’m talking about when Howl and Sophie walk on air in Howl’s Moving Castle, the introduction to the gardens of Laputa in Castle in the Sky, the final scene of Nausicaa, a lot of Scenes in Spirited Away but mainly bathing the Stink Spirit, And the bus scene in Totoro. Multiple beautiful Miyazaki images, but simple ones. That one indelible image from Mononoke is probably the only simple image in the whole movie. It is a movie filled with beautiful images, but each one is packed with emotion and there is so much complexity in this movie and the characters are so angry and so troubled that we cannot be pulled away, and we are here till the end, it’s like we are put in Ashitaka’s position. We, like he does, have to sort this out, otherwise they will destroy each other, and the chances are they will destroy each other anyways. We feel the burden that Ashitaka has to carry, and the way Miyazaki is able to pull that off is masterful.


The plot of Mononoke is the most complex and brilliant story Miyazaki’s ever told. The movie opens on a small town that is home of the Ameishe tribe, where the people live in peace with nature. Ashitaka is the last surviving prince of the clan, which is a dying tribe, as they have been pushed out to the east by gods and capitalists. One day, their camp is invaded by a demonic creature, which it turns out was a giant boar god who became a demon through hatred. But before I get to that:

Every film has its details you love. So, I want to mention the details I love, in particular, this tower, and its guard. I LOVE the design of this tower, the way it sort of collapses in the middle. The thing is, there is no way a normal person can climb that quickly, plus it’s not very sturdy, but in the world Miyazaki creates it fits in perfectly but is so stilted and sharp it sticks out like a sore thumb. There are millions of little details like that I adore.

The demonic creature is iconic Miyazaki, and when it bursts into the opening it is an astonishing sight. Miyazaki brings the creature to life fabulously, the coating of multiple squiggly demonic branches all flowing together to create something demonic. I can’t describe it. I just need to show you:




But even more amazing is when this creature is moving, the little dark pieces flowing over the body, the haunting beauty of the pace at which it runs with those legs, it’s masterfully done. Whenever Miyazaki sets a pace like this it’s beautiful to behold, and especially here, where his actual framing of shots create an exciting and brilliant chase scene.


The moment where the boar roars and shows his true nature, throwing the demon off for a second and we realise there is a human (well, a god, but something with true human emotions) underneath the disguise is the first note of what exactly Miyazaki is doing here, but more on that later. Later on in the film Miyazaki brings back the creature as he pushes one of the main characters to a situation where they become so devastated by the situation they are in that they start to become a demon like this one earlier, and this is being done to a character, one of the few characters, who is not controlled by hatred, and one we have grown to empathise with and admire and like. And the moment the demon starts to develop in him is devastating.


The lead up to the attack, the first moment in the film, is quiet, and the rustling from the forest, watching flashes of darkness in openings, creates a wonderful uneasy sense of dread. There is a starkness of noise, where you feel the fact that there is nothing being said, no sounds in the background. You can hear the heartbeats as we wait for the attack to begin. The demon gets introduced by having small bits of darkness flow in a wall surrounding the village, and then suddenly, it bursts through the wall, with Joe Hisaishi’s score bursting into this dark, nihilistic drum pattern which matches the mood perfectly. The moment the demon bursts through the open it starts to rampage towards the village, and Ashitaka does everything in his power to stop it. In a huge character point, he starts by trying to appeal to the boar to turn back, and tries to sort out the situation harmlessly. The flashes of trees in the forests, the flowing demon, the elk Ashitaka rides, it all comes together to create one of the best chases on film, so many beautiful moments, Miyazaki’s motion is just a joy beyond words. At first the Demon seems not too interested in Ashitaka, and Ashitaka does not attack the Boar Demon. They rush through the forest, trying to resolve the situation peacefully, but a creature of so much hatred cannot be helped, only stopped. As he gets closer to the village, they burst into a plane by the village with the obligatory girls in need of help (although these girls are quite strong characters, just not enough to fight a giant pig demon.) Ashitaka attacks, hitting the creature in the eye, which lashes out and grabs Ashitaka’s arm before he hits the boar in the head to kill it.  The image of the boar’s arm lashing out at Ashitaka is great, the way the Boar shape shifts and flows, like how it crunches up into a ball when hit then explodes, has such haunting grace it sends shivers down the spine yet you want to watch it again and again. And instead of having the demon’s arm become something of a weapon Miyazaki has the camera flow with the arm, with the mass of limbs bursting out at Ashitaka, and it tracks it as it rushes by Ashitaka riding his elk and..It just blows my mind, and pulls me in, and all sorts of superlatives, the beautiful flow of that one shot, the way it comes together with Ashitaka’s face, his emotions, and the way he rushes towards the Boar are all done to absolute beauty and perfection.




As the Boar falls to Ashitaka’s second strike, the demon scars itself into the landscape, and the living parts of it disappear. In its place is marks left on the ground, surrounding the boar, and on Ashitaka’s hand. And this begins a downward spiral for Ashitaka, for with this and circumstances that happen he starts to become less and less a prince of the Ameishe Tribe by spirit, and more and more his own person. And he starts to understand that the teachings of the Ameishe are not going to be able to help this situation, but the ideological foundations of the ways do. And so he creates his own moral code. This is not a bad thing, it’s not like those movies of obsession or drugs, it’s more where he keeps the ideological foundations but becomes more open and receptive to the world around him. The design of the actual mark represents that, as well as the cutting of his hair. The mark itself is seared on him, and is slowly taking him over.  And the design stands out against his arm, and the way it contrasts with his soul and personality and it creates part of Ashitaka, as much as the Ameishe tribe and his beginnings and his feelings towards both arguing parties in the forest. That mark creates the conflicted persona of Ashitaka. The landscape of the film is green and brown, and it evokes this beautiful forest imagery, and what Miyazaki does so masterfully is here is a film where the colours are completely natural, which doesn’t take anything away from the utter beauty, but that’s what it is. The reds and blues of the townsfolk fit perfectly in, not that they meld but the colours don’t stand out, neither does the white coat of Okoto, or the grey skies during the one scene involving rain (a great scene). And so, Miyazaki’s genius is creating this world, and then having anything demonic be presented in this stark dark purple, which to the eye, which is accustomed to this landscape, it stands out against the landscape. Any time it comes up it shocks you, and your eye can’t pull away. It’s starkly beautiful, it’s pure corruption, if that makes sense, it is pure hatred.



And so the infection of this mark becomes Ashitaka’s dark side. Whereas other characters contain their hate within themselves, Ashitaka is always aware of his hate as it is contained within that mark. On one hand, that means he knows where his hate is and can come to terms with that. On the other hand, his hate is growing larger and larger and will eventually destroy him.




Before Mononoke, Miyazaki would deal out emotions in very simple doses, one character is full of hate, one is full of love (and I think he gets somewhat better at this on Porco Rosso). Think about it. The purity of Nausicaa, the character, only wavers once, and she is instead a symbol of peace and justice and all that, whereas the big bad humans are simply big and bad. This is not a bad thing, Miyazaki never delves into the cliché, but it is true. Same with Castle in the Sky. The two kids are the heroes, they can do wrong but their intentions are never bad and their emotions are pure, whereas the voice of Luke Skywalker coming out of an accountant is pure evil. Castle in the Sky shows Miyazaki’s lovely ability for overturning our expectations, but never his ability to live in the grey. Once again, this does not hurt these films at all. These are not faults with his previous work, but more a trump card to Mononoke.



In Mononoke, Miyazaki lives in the grey. For me, it’s not a bad thing he doesn’t do this before, the worlds he creates never require it, hell, maybe they’re better for it. But with this world he’s created, he knows he can’t properly portray it without creating a morally complex world where everyone is full of hatred for the either side and neither side is right. This should be a simple decision, but can you name me ONE other director who portrays two sides so full of hatred, in such a life or death situation, and yet gives both sides their due. The narrative doesn’t have to be interesting, or good in anyway, just tell me of someone who never vilifies either side. No? Cameron, Costner, Hell, even Disney. No one does this.




So hats off to Miyazaki, but this aspect isn’t even close to the greatest aspect of the narrative here. After the amazing opening, the narrative is pitch perfect, I mean not a scene, not a step that, for me, could have been done any better. As Ashitaka wanders through the countryside, Miyazaki takes his time in allowing this singular character to be developed, and for us to understand everything about Ashitaka. He is the mediator. He is, and the movie so brilliantly says, the man who sees “with eyes unclouded by hate”. He has been brought up by a tribe who believes in peace, with never resorting to violence unless absolutely nothing else can be done. Then, when he arrives in this village, he is forced to delve into this world where both sides are unwilling to listen to the other. He cannot pick, and isn’t supposed to pick, a side to fight for. Which spins everyone for a loss. The people of Irontown wonder why a human, born into a human society, will not fight for their side. The answer is simple, he wasn’t born in Irontown. The gods wonder why such a kindred spirit, a man of peace, is helping the humans. Quite simply, it is because he cannot let the humans perish.

Miyazaki juggles all these problems and conflicts wonderfully. In this one film, he has to deal with the demon mark on Ashitaka’s hand, the war between gods and humans, the great forest spirit and the relationship between Ashitaka and San, all large enough to carry their own films. And he handles it amazingly. He doesn’t just handle all these disparate parts well but he is somehow, with his magical touch, is able to bring these all into one, simple overarching narrative.




Miyazaki makes most of the characters incredibly sympathetic. He creates this foil in the human camp, the pairing of Toki and Kouroku, and Toki is sort of the stand-in for the women in the town. She’s strong, but not without fear. She’s tough but kind. She, and in turn the people of Irontown, are the perfect side characters. Don’t you hate side characters, or sidekicks, who are wimpy and need to be helped along every step of the way? The people of Irontown are incredibly strong in their own right, but also incredibly dwarfed by the problems around them.




And then look at the some of the things Irontown does. Ok, yes it completely bastardizes the forest near it and has no qualms about the lives of the gods and the forest spirit. But they also don’t look down on women, or on the sick. They don’t judge their own, hell, they do everything they can to help the outcasts of humanity. When Ashitaka returns after aiding the enemy they don’t judge him, they trust that he actually wants to help them. It’s not much of a plot point, but it makes perfect sense. Or look at the community itself, the way everyone interacts with each other is warm and welcoming. Miyazaki spends a lot of time allowing us to get familiar with Irontown, and so we can’t side against the people there. And that is how he twists the formula.



And then there’s the gods. We humans, or maybe us cinemagoers, the people who seek out this type of film, we are all about environmental issues, and about how the capitalist society is all bad, and must be punished. And so we should easily side with the gods, and their struggle to fit for their own land away from the greedy Americans, I mean, people of Irontown. Let’s call this the “Na’avi” syndrome. It’s typified by a comment made by one of my friends when we left the cinema after seeing Avatar, where he said “God, don’t you just hate humanity now?” So it’s easy to tap into this.

But, just as Miyazaki took his time by showing us the bright sides of the people of Irontown, neither does he shy away from showing us the negative aspects of the gods. These are angry creatures consumed with rage, and whatever judgement they have left is not blinded but is certainly affected by this rage. And they are paranoid, paranoid of letting the one man who may be able to help them into the camp. They are angry, bitter, vengeful creatures, and Miyazaki has no qualms in letting these emotions come out.

Now, don’t get me wrong, the people of Irontown are still destroying the land the gods rightfully own and the gods are still sympathetic and are wise, thoughtful creatures. But Miyazaki, where other directors wouldn’t, creates full characters, where their flaws are as apparent as their strengths, and this turns them into people, with personalities and emotions, not figure heads made for giving passionate speeches about how we must save the forest, or clichés built to carry a message. Which, when considering the breadth of the narrative, is an amazing achievement. 


Lord Asano’s Samurai? They’re a plot device, nothing else. A great plot device, but their character and philosophy means nothing to the overall impact of the film.

And so we move on to our main characters:


As a character, Jigo is probably the simplest persona of the bunch, and it makes it hard to write about him. He is sort of like a reincarnation of Porco from Porco Rosso. He is arrogant, greedy, ruthless, and uncaring. He is the closest thing we get to a villain but at the same time, he’s kinda charming. Plus, he doesn’t affect the narrative as much as any villain would; he is not the antagonising force in this movie by a long shot, his character only dictates, like Lord Asano, that he push events forward. And for a character like that he’s pretty great, and a lot of fun. He also seems to act as a driving force for the corrupt side of Lady Hiboshi, whereas the people of Irontown may be the pure side of Hiboshi.



The Lady Hiboshi herself is something else entirely. Her main motive and ideology for her actions is that she tries to conquer the unconquerable, to kill gods and the Forest Spirit because she believes she is greater than all of them. And, while she treats her townsfolk well, she is also blissfully ignorant of the power of the gods, the emotional damage she is causing, the environmental damage and the consequences of it, because she wants to kill not a god, but THE god, the god of gods, and would therefore become the god of gods. And yet I sympathise slightly with her. I don’t know why, but it’s those little moments of interactions with the people of Irontown, and the community she sets up there. It just works.




On the other hand we have the wolf princess, San. Her motives are noble, and we understand exactly where she’s coming from. But she is consumed with anger against the humans, and she is starting to go over the edge of reason in this anger. This is her main and only true flaw, she has a kind heart, and she is strong and an amazing character beyond that.




This very beautiful relationship begins between these two kindred spirits of San and Ashitaka. As she is the link Ashitaka has with this world, and with nature, and Ashitaka kind of sees how she should really be humanity’s link with nature, but how humanity shut nature off, pretending nature had no place in their lives. But above all, it’s just a simple love, and Miyazaki is the best at portraying love on screen. There’s no grandstanding, no crutches, the love relationships he creates are pure magic, and this one maybe the most magical to watch onscreen of all, as well as heartbreaking and complex and all other superlatives.

And then there’s Ashitaka, who I have gone on and on about. He is my personal favourite character in all of the cinemas. He just is. Screw the people who don’t understand him. He is a completely new creation; you can’t link his character as “Blank with a blank”, or as being like this character from that movie. Nobody has written anything like Ashitaka before, and probably never will. Clovis says his actions aren’t understandable. Fine. Let him go watch Before Sunset over and over again. Because, for me, I completely understand Ashitaka. He has no hate inside him, and coming from the peaceful village where he grew up this hatred scares him. When he arrives in this town, and at this forest, he sees everything for exactly how it is, unlike everyone else who are biased towards other characters. He understands everyone, and how life is and how it should be. And, I’m sorry for saying this on a film forum with film buffs who all care about the purity of the film, and who are all about foreign language films and whatnot(and I’m one of them.), but Billy Crudup gives one of the greatest performances of all time. The rest of the English cast is great, but Crudup, an actor whose other performances I really love, completely embodies everything I love about the character of Ashitaka. He is perfect in the role, and I could not have asked for anything more.

At this point, I would go into cinematography, but I can’t really describe the beauty of this film to you. It is the single most beautiful film, animated or otherwise. Let me show you why:














As for the score:

Joe Hisaishi / Princess Mononoke Symphonic Suite


I just have one more point to make, and it’s about the frame above. Going into this review I was sure I was going to talk about my favourite scene from the movie, but watching it again I realised that every other scene is as good as that one scene, and I couldn’t pick just one scene, so I decided against it. But this one moment, this hug they share, is the greatest moment in film. As the world crashes around them, they share that one moment of purity which is so beautiful words do not describe it.

I guess, before leaving you all, I have to mention why this film hits me on such a personal level. Problem is, unlike most of you, I don’t know the answer to this question. I know it has, I just can’t figure out why.  I’ve already talked mildly about my love for the film (I’m being serious, I still don’t think I was effusive enough.) but as for real world parallels, I dunno. I’m a nature kinda guy, so the landscape of the forests just works for me. The story of feuding clans and the sort of struggle between nature versus man is my favourite kind of story, I guess. And Ashitaka may be the kind of character I try and be in real life. It’s hard to find real world parallels. I mean, I’m still just 16, I’m not supposed to have this complete idea of what I believe yet. I’m still so confused, just kind of wandering through life trying to find things to grasp onto, you know? Maybe that’s it. Maybe it’s like these characters, you know? We’re all confused by the capacity of humanity and can’t find what we’re looking for in the world around us. Maybe it’s that confusion I respond to. Because, I may seem confident on these forums, I wouldn’t know. But I am so confused and unsure of myself in real life. I haven’t got a grip on anything, on trying to express emotions, or trying to be the best person I can, or trying to complete a work of art, and that’s where Mononoke speaks to me.

And so here it is. I was going to start out by doing a long article going through the plot scene by scene but kinda started to realise that was a bit too indulgent and I might bore all you. I might do one of those scene by scene analysis’ one of these days, like Sam and Froham (pretentious snobs). I hope I’ve gotten more people to see Mononoke, for the first time or again. It’s the only movie, the only piece of art I’ve fully absorbed into my life, and talking about it is hard as I can’t describe my love for it. I’m assuming you all feel the same way about your favourites. I’ve gone for about seven pages about how great Mononoke is, but the passion I feel for it, I haven’t even gone near it, because it is all consuming, but in the best way possible. I cry every time I watch it, I’m blown away by its beauty every time I watch it. I get excited every time I watch it. If I ever watch anything else that matches the perfection on display here, my life will be complete.


I actually consider a lot of movies to be life-changing! I take them to my heart and they melt into my personality.

flieger

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Re: 'Noke and Ferris do a little 'Zaki (Miyazaki Marathon + 1 Takahata!)
« Reply #114 on: May 31, 2010, 08:46:17 PM »
Woohoo!  I love that Great Forest Spirit moment, and the hug. Oh, and your review, too!  8)

Melvil

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Re: 'Noke and Ferris do a little 'Zaki (Miyazaki Marathon + 1 Takahata!)
« Reply #115 on: May 31, 2010, 10:10:22 PM »
*clap clap clap*

Really enjoyed the review, 'Noke, it's awesome to hear how passionate you are about it and how important it is to you on a personal level. I really love it too of course, so I'm very receptive of the love-fest. ;)

oldkid

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Re: 'Noke and Ferris do a little 'Zaki (Miyazaki Marathon + 1 Takahata!)
« Reply #116 on: May 31, 2010, 11:37:14 PM »
Bold review, 'Noke.  I love PM, although I didn't care for it at first.  Miyazaki is so amazing, and this is certainly one of his best.

"It's not art unless it has the potential to be a disaster." Bansky

'Noke

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Re: 'Noke and Ferris do a little 'Zaki (Miyazaki Marathon + 1 Takahata!)
« Reply #117 on: June 13, 2010, 02:59:02 PM »
Miyazaki Marathon Film #8


Spirited Away
(2001)

Part 1:

Welcome! You have entered [Films] at 10:54 pm
[Films]: 'Noke has entered at 10:54 pm
[Films]: ferris has entered at 10:57 pm
[‘Noke] 10:57 pm: :)
[ferris] 10:57 pm: well lookie there!  We finally got together
[‘Noke] 10:57 pm: took a while
[‘Noke] 10:57 pm: but we did it
[ferris] 10:58 pm: I guess it's ok that it's hard.  A mere 200 years ago it would have taken 4-6 months in order for you and I to have a conversation   :)
[‘Noke] 10:58 pm: look at where we've come from 200 years ago!
[ferris] 10:59 pm: And we both look so young still!  :D
[‘Noke] 10:59 pm: that's the immortality thing
[‘Noke] 11:00 pm: always look young when you’re immortal   :)
[ferris] 11:00 pm: yep.
[ferris] 11:00 pm: This time let's both try to remember to save the chat log.  I still can't believe I lost it last time  :-[
[‘Noke] 11:00 pm: I got it this time
[ferris] 11:01 pm: so ....this marathon has taken a lot longer than either of us expected, but we're finally on Spirited Away!
[‘Noke] 11:01 pm: we did it!
[‘Noke] 11:01 pm: we made it to this point!
[ferris] 11:02 pm: Yep!  Only one to go after this
[ferris] 11:04 pm: ok.  Let's start the chat...........NOW
[ferris] 11:04 pm:  :)   
[‘Noke] 11:04 pm: ok, I think you would be more apt to begin this one.


[ferris] 11:05 pm: So on the last chat, I kinda interviewed you for about 15 minutes, want to ask me some questions?  Or Vice versa?
[ferris] 11:05 pm: Or what would be a clean way to structure this?
[‘Noke] 11:05 pm: I'll ask you
[ferris] 11:05 pm: cool
[ferris] 11:06 pm: I could seriously go on and on and on
[‘Noke] 11:06 pm: I'm wondering, this is an amazing film let me say off the bat, but for me, this is middle of the road Miyazaki
[‘Noke] 11:06 pm: so I'm wondering what elements for you elevate this film above the rest of his work?
[ferris] 11:07 pm: What elevates this film for me are 1) the characters and 2) the incredible imagery - in particular 3 all-time jaw-dropping great scenes.
[ferris] 11:08 pm: Plus it was my first Miyazaki - the first time I discovered such a thing could be done on film
[ferris] 11:08 pm: It broke down all my stereotypes of what anime was -
[‘Noke] 11:09 pm: I think we'll get to characters in a bit, so what exactly scenes would you pick out in particular?
[‘Noke] 11:09 pm: it was mine too, and I loved it then, but I still have been more impressed by his later stuff
[‘Noke] 11:09 pm: oh, and I totally agree on the imagery, one of the most beautiful films ever made
[ferris] 11:10 pm: I think early on in the film there was one scene that broke the film wide open for me.  It was the scene where the riverboat crosses the lake (that was a field a few hours earlier) and a bunch of spirits come out.
[‘Noke] 11:10 pm: ah
[‘Noke] 11:11 pm: I love that image
[‘Noke] 11:11 pm: it's not one that particular stuck out for me but I love it
[ferris] 11:12 pm: well, for a first Miyazaki - this is the first time I saw something that you'd never see in a Disney, a Pixar, a DreamWorks or any other animation I would have been exposed to at that point.
[ferris] 11:12 pm: plus the music in that scene was this fabulous hybrid of western and classic Japanese.  Very cool
[‘Noke] 11:13 pm: I feel as though the first moments when Chihiro (PS, do you call her Sen or Chihiro?)
[‘Noke] 11:13 pm: -is running through the spirit world in fright is gorgeous, and one of my favs from the movie too
[ferris] 11:13 pm: which scene are you referring to?
[‘Noke] 11:14 pm: the moment when, straight after her parents get turned into pigs, she's running through the city
[‘Noke] 11:15 pm: which includes the moment you are talking about
[ferris] 11:15 pm: true.
[‘Noke] 11:15 pm: the shot of the city in bright lights over the dark water, I mean breathtaking
[‘Noke] 11:16 pm: sorry, I'm watching that scene right now and noticing little things
[ferris] 11:16 pm: exactly.  so great. 

Cool.

[‘Noke] 11:16 pm: like the way the creatures flow from being masks to being full bodied creatures is amazing
[‘Noke] 11:17 pm: and the way that if Pixar did this it, it would look nice and confirm to the world, but the details in the animation wouldn't capture your imagination like they do here
[ferris] 11:19 pm: Right.  You hit it on the head.  Pixar asks - "how can we make this look real", and Miyazaki seems to take full advantage of what the medium offers, but seems somehow to complete comply with the rules of physics - we are in a weird universe, but it's completely grounded
[‘Noke] 11:19 pm: I'm not sure about grounded, grounded indicates that it consists within the world we know
[‘Noke] 11:20 pm: I think he creates his own worlds, each one different from the next, and when he does everything within that world conforms to it and heightens it
[‘Noke] 11:20 pm: and he brings us so well into the world that we believe it because we are living in that world with its rules and morals
[ferris] 11:21 pm: I think we're saying the same thing.  It's kinda what I meant by grounded
[ferris] 11:21 pm: "believable" is maybe a better word
[‘Noke] 11:21 pm: I think we are too  :)


[ferris] 11:21 pm: So you want to hear my second scene?
[‘Noke] 11:22 pm: before we get to that (and we will), watching the scene again there was this great detail I noticed
[ferris] 11:22 pm: sure!     
[‘Noke] 11:23 pm: there's a moment before the boat appears where Chihiro is sitting on the bank and she's saying to herself "It's all a dream, It's all a dream, disappear, disappear" as you would, and it's at that moment that we start to realise that she is starting to fade away
[‘Noke] 11:23 pm: as if the only way for the creatures to disappear is for her to disappear somewhere else
[‘Noke] 11:23 pm: and I kinda loved that touch
[‘Noke] 11:24 pm: alright, your second scene?
[ferris] 11:25 pm: BTW: that was a nice perception you had
[‘Noke] 11:25 pm: twas just a little note I had
[ferris] 11:25 pm: The second scene was the bathhouse with the river spirit
[‘Noke] 11:26 pm: ok
[ferris] 11:26 pm: This was just a jaw-dropping scene for me.  The whole thing.  It could have been its own short film
[ferris] 11:26 pm: from the time they start filling the tub, until the moment where the workers find the gold scattered on the floor
[‘Noke] 11:27 pm: are you saying you thought the moments afterwards, when the dragon appears wasn't as effective, or that's just the cut-off point of the scene?
[ferris] 11:28 pm: Just a cut-off point
[‘Noke] 11:28 pm: fair enough
[ferris] 11:28 pm: The whole fishhook thing really spoke volumes for me
[ferris] 11:29 pm: ..being a long-time outdoorsman who spent an entire childhood swimming in freshwater lakes - you learned to grow a pet peeve of lost fishhooks and line in the water
[‘Noke] 11:29 pm: was it simply the brilliance of the scene or did you have some personal connection to it to?
[‘Noke] 11:29 pm: oh, nm
[‘Noke] 11:29 pm: :)
[ferris] 11:29 pm: In fact they say there is 200 miles of fishing line in Puget Sound alone (Seattle)
[ferris] 11:30 pm: I don't know - I'm trying to verbalize why that all was so cool -
[‘Noke] 11:30 pm: ooh
[ferris] 11:30 pm: it just was! :)
[‘Noke] 11:30 pm: I agree
[‘Noke] 11:31 pm: one detail I love, in particular, is the way water is animated
[‘Noke] 11:31 pm: and watching it crash against the bathhouse walls
[ferris] 11:31 pm: yes!
[ferris] 11:31 pm: They're pulling on what they think is a thorn and it ends up being a bike
[‘Noke] 11:31 pm: I love that too
[ferris] 11:31 pm: the last line of the scene, where the river god says "thank you".....
[ferris] 11:32 pm: ...the Japanese literally translates "it feels good"
[‘Noke] 11:32 pm: I heard, did you say that in your review?
[‘Noke] 11:32 pm: I know I heard it somewhere
[ferris] 11:33 pm: I mentioned that in my review.  I read that in one of a dozen articles I read on the film, but I don't remember which one off the top of my head
[‘Noke] 11:33 pm: ah
[ferris] 11:35 pm: it's also the first moment we get a sense that the Witch (name?!) is not this one-dimensional bad guy
[‘Noke] 11:36 pm: oh, definitely
[ferris] 11:36 pm: And I love that too - there are no black and white good and bad characters in the film.  The "good guys" are flawed and the "bad guys" are not completely unsympathetic
[ferris] 11:36 pm: I NNNNNEEED that in a film.
[‘Noke] 11:36 pm: but, I think there's a much bigger split then in Mononoke, for example
[ferris] 11:36 pm: I can't connect to characters that are too unrealistically one way or the other.
[ferris] 11:36 pm: This is why films like "Doubt" will always be high on my list
[‘Noke] 11:37 pm: I think what happens is instead of turning into the grey, Miyazaki simply makes some people sympathetic or unsympathetic, but none villainous or heroic
[‘Noke] 11:37 pm: there's no true antagonist, just people who stand somewhat in Chihiro's way
[‘Noke] 11:37 pm: and there's a lot of reversals of character
[‘Noke] 11:37 pm: which is awesome
[ferris] 11:37 pm: good observation.  I'm thinking through the other films at how that manifests itself
[ferris] 11:38 pm: I think Naussica is the least applicable
[ferris] 11:38 pm: seems much more black and white
[ferris] 11:38 pm: (but I'm struggling to remember now...)
[‘Noke] 11:39 pm: I think Castle in the Sky is the least applicable, as well as Nausicaa
[ferris] 11:39 pm: Yeah.  Luke Skywalker is pretty unilaterally creepy in that
[‘Noke] 11:39 pm: in the best way though
[ferris] 11:39 pm: LOL - yeah
[‘Noke] 11:40 pm: Kiki has no antagonist, neither does Totoro, Howl's has a much more complex storyline
[‘Noke] 11:40 pm: Mononoke has none, spirited has none
[ferris] 11:40 pm: I love films without an antagonist
[‘Noke] 11:40 pm: but I think the difference is Mononoke is all about the characters who are fighting against each other, and Spirited Away is all about Chihiro
[ferris] 11:40 pm: that might be the one constant in my top 100 films
[‘Noke] 11:41 pm: I do too, but I do love a good antagonist as well
[ferris] 11:41 pm: Yes!  There are a few great ones on my list !   :)  (Jaws, There Will Be Blood, Raiders, Empire Strikes Back...)
[‘Noke] 11:42 pm: Well, There Will Be Blood doesn't really count cause it's a character piece about an antagonist


[ferris] 11:42 pm: so third scene?  And then I'll turn the focus on you for a bit
[‘Noke] 11:42 pm: yes, let’s get back on track!
[‘Noke] 11:42 pm: what is the third scene
[‘Noke] 11:42 pm: ?
[ferris] 11:42 pm: right
[ferris] 11:43 pm: The third scene I love in the film, is the one that iced this film as a top 20 film in my book
[‘Noke] 11:43 pm: I might know where you're going
[ferris] 11:44 pm: want to guess?
[‘Noke] 11:44 pm: nah, surprise me
[ferris] 11:44 pm: The train ride out to the sister's house
[‘Noke] 11:44 pm: I knew it, and it's my fav scene too
[ferris] 11:45 pm: the combination of the gorgeous animation, the breathtaking music, the mood, and just the fact that the entire action of the movie came to a halt and we just sat in silent awe waiting for what would come next
[ferris] 11:46 pm: I can't think of another scene in our Miyazaki marathon that even comes close to being as great.  Maybe the Castle in Castle in the Sky is close
[ferris] 11:46 pm: (where the robot hand the girl a flower, etc)
[‘Noke] 11:46 pm: I know
[‘Noke] 11:47 pm: you nailed everything about it, I mean how many animated movies can you describe as "Slow, meditative, and gorgeous"
[‘Noke] 11:47 pm: not counting Miyazaki's entire oeuvre, of course
[‘Noke] 11:48 pm: I'd say this, the castle in the sky in Laputa, the walking on air scene in howl's, and the hug in Mononoke are my fav Miyazaki moments
[ferris] 11:49 pm: I need to rewatch Howls still.  I watched it almost a year ago now.  I have it on the TiVo downstairs
[ferris] 11:49 pm: I can't remember much except Billy Crystal was fire
[ferris] 11:49 pm: :D   
[ferris] 11:49 pm: It'll be interesting to watch with the entire Miyazaki cannon as a backdrop
[‘Noke] 11:50 pm: as a backdrop?
[ferris] 11:50 pm: BTW: my son, so taken by the film, immediately went and read the book that was the source material.    ......completely different!  Oh well
[ferris] 11:51 pm: backdrop ...umm.....how about "it'll be interesting to watch through the lens of having seen all his prior films"
[ferris] 11:51 pm: context
[‘Noke] 11:51 pm: aw, course
[‘Noke] 11:51 pm: silly me :)   
[ferris] 11:52 pm: the hug in Mononoke was pretty awesome
[‘Noke] 11:52 pm: I'm glad we agree :)   
[‘Noke] 11:52 pm: anyways, I love that moment
[‘Noke] 11:53 pm: just the way the colours are used, the black of the passengers and no face compared to the blue skies compared to the red interiors, and Chihiro's expression
[ferris] 11:54 pm: so right....everything about that scene is worth mentioning....the platforms that speed by, the two sidekicks looking out the window, that house on an island off in the distance....
[ferris] 11:54 pm: ...and the fact that they are getting to the edge of the "lake" when they get to their stop.
[ferris] 11:55 pm: ...then to top it off, the greeting by that hopping lamp - just made me giggle when they bowed to each other.  So clever
[‘Noke] 11:55 pm: the lamp was great
[‘Noke] 11:55 pm: I'm getting chills right now
[ferris] 11:56 pm: And "no face" is such an awesome character.
[‘Noke] 11:56 pm: he's one of my favourites
[ferris] 11:56 pm: just wants a little love and attention, that's all.  poor guy
[‘Noke] 11:57 pm: the way he can go to being a monster to something so pitiful and beautiful so quickly and yet it is totally believable!
[ferris] 11:57 pm: we should do a favorite characters list at the end of the marathon
[‘Noke] 11:57 pm: we so should


[ferris] 11:58 pm: So let me ask you a couple things....
[‘Noke] 11:58 pm: actually, just a sec
[ferris] 11:58 pm: ok
[‘Noke] 11:58 pm: You haven't heard my favourite moment :D
[ferris] 11:58 pm: that's what I was just going to ask!  great minds think alike     
[‘Noke] 11:58 pm: and we are great minds
[‘Noke] 11:58 pm: :)
[‘Noke] 12:00 am: so, my favourite....IS the train ride and the lamp and the walk up to Zaniba's house, but we've already talked about
[‘Noke] 12:00 am: next to that is a scene that occurs just before that, and before the scene where no-face goes insane
[‘Noke] 12:01 am: It's the smallest of moments, it's when Chihiro has just fallen into the boiler room with Haku, in dragon form
[ferris] 12:01 am: oh yes
[‘Noke] 12:03 am: and he spits out the seal and the slug, and she kills the slug, and Kamaji goes "evil be gone"
[‘Noke] 12:03 am: and then there's this brilliant moment, where the little sootballs (Hi Melvil!) are crowding around the footprint left in the ground when Chihiro steps on the slug
[ferris] 12:04 am: that's my kid's favorite scene.
[‘Noke] 12:04 am: and Ubaba's baby, as a rat, goes over and steps on the foot
[‘Noke] 12:04 am: a shiver runs up his spine, and the sootballs strike his fingers like Chihiro's a second ago
[ferris] 12:04 am: right.
[‘Noke] 12:05 am: and it is just the funniest and most brilliant moment, I can't describe it
[‘Noke] 12:05 am: the way the sootballs start celebrating is just brilliant
[ferris] 12:05 am: so awesome.  My 13 year old son had that exact moment captured as his facebook avatar for about 4 months
[‘Noke] 12:05 am: your son has good taste  ;)
[ferris] 12:05 am: in fact we've kinda adopted that move into the ferris family lexicon.
[‘Noke] 12:06 am: awesome
[ferris] 12:06 am: someone will look at someone else with fingers pointed together and the other will slice through it.  Usually right after something frustrating happens (like spilled milk or something)
[‘Noke] 12:07 am: I'm grinning from ear to ear
[‘Noke] 12:07 am: your family is cooler than mine         
[ferris] 12:07 am: I hate to say I have to leave now
[ferris] 12:07 am: I'm meeting SteveKimes
[ferris] 12:07 am: to watch Days of Heaven together.  We're meeting in about 20 minutes
[‘Noke] 12:07 am: I forgot!
[‘Noke] 12:07 am: Happy birthday!
[ferris] 12:08 am: thanks :)
[‘Noke] 12:08 am: wow
[‘Noke] 12:08 am: on DVD?
[‘Noke] 12:08 am: you better love it, It's one of my personal favs
[ferris] 12:08 am: better - projection!  he's secured a church somewhere and he's got a cool little portable video/sound setup.
[‘Noke] 12:08 am: JEALOUS!!!
[ferris] 12:09 am: LOL
[‘Noke] 12:09 am: That's like one of the 5 movies I want to see on the big screen
[ferris] 12:09 am: You want to copy what we're written so far?
[‘Noke] 12:09 am: I've already been doing it
[‘Noke] 12:09 am: anyways, before you leave, quickly
[ferris] 12:09 am: yeah
[‘Noke] 12:09 am: would you like to continue another time?
[‘Noke] 12:09 am: I'm babysitting tomorrow night (ugh) so I'll be here
[‘Noke] 12:10 am: babysitting my sisters
[ferris] 12:10 am: sure!  I feel like there are some thematic things we should touch on
[‘Noke] 12:10 am: let's do that
[‘Noke] 12:10 am: enjoy days of heaven!
[‘Noke] 12:10 am: happy birthday!
[ferris] 12:10 am: tomorrow around the same time would work for me.  I'll watch for you on the PM
[ferris] 12:10 am: thanks!
[Films]: ferris has left at 12:11 am
[‘Noke] 12:11 am: ah well


Part 2:


Welcome! You have entered [Films] at 9:53 pm
[Films]: 'Noke has entered at 9:53 pm
[Films]: ferris has entered at 9:55 pm
[ferris] 9:56 pm: hello!
[‘Noke] 9:56 pm: ah hello!
[ferris] 9:57 pm: how are the football matches going today? 
[‘Noke] 9:58 pm: apparently south africa  v. Mexico was a good start, but I didn't get to see it
[‘Noke] 9:58 pm: France v Uruguay was a bad match, but I'm happy with the result
[‘Noke] 9:58 pm: looks like South Africa and Mexico are the stronger sides in this group
[ferris] 9:59 pm: Even as far away as Portland we are hearing quite a buzz about the games - even though people seem to be generally pretty luke warm about it out here
[‘Noke] 10:00 pm: thats unfortunate
[‘Noke] 10:00 pm: maybe news will pick up tomorrow, as it's the US's first match, against england no less
[ferris] 10:00 pm: ESPN is pushing that matchup really hard
[‘Noke] 10:01 pm: I bet they are     
[‘Noke] 10:01 pm: I'm more excited about the other two matchups, actually
[ferris] 10:01 pm: what are the other two matchups?
[‘Noke] 10:02 pm: Greece vs South Korea, and Argentina vs Nigeria


[ferris] 10:07 pm: so do you want to segue into Spirited Away?
[‘Noke] 10:07 pm: alright
[‘Noke] 10:07 pm: I did want to ask you something
[ferris] 10:08 pm: sure
[‘Noke] 10:08 pm: about Spirited Away
[‘Noke] 10:08 pm: and it'll help start our discussion
[ferris] 10:08 pm: ok....
[‘Noke] 10:09 pm: yesterday you said how the imagery, the characters and those three scenes were elevated this, for you, above other Miyazaki (and most other movies in general)
[‘Noke] 10:09 pm: so I wanted to ask about the characters, what exactly made them more interesting in this film then in other Miyazaki?
[ferris] 10:10 pm: Good question
[ferris] 10:10 pm: In general they are more flawed, more realistic
[ferris] 10:11 pm: ...as much as something in that film can BE realistic!
[ferris] 10:12 pm: I ask myself a question at the end of a movie, "Do I know enough about the character that I be able to order off a menu for them at dinner?"
[ferris] 10:12 pm: (question not to be taken literally - especially when food is part of the movie!)
[‘Noke] 10:14 pm: Hmmm
[‘Noke] 10:15 pm: I like that idea
[‘Noke] 10:15 pm: sort of, how well do I know this character
[ferris] 10:15 pm: right...
[‘Noke] 10:16 pm: but I didn't feel an affinity for Sen here as much as I did for, say Patsu in Castle in the Sky
[‘Noke] 10:16 pm: I guess her character did hold me back a tiny bit
[‘Noke] 10:16 pm: just a tiny bit
[ferris] 10:16 pm: Was Patsu the boy or the girl?
[‘Noke] 10:16 pm: the boy
[ferris] 10:17 pm: I loved Sen.   Easily my favorite character in the Miyazaki cannon.
[‘Noke] 10:17 pm: I love her too
[‘Noke] 10:17 pm: I need to watch the Japanese version, cause I don't like the English dub of her that much
[ferris] 10:18 pm: With Patsu - it was interesting - he kept doing things that were superhuman for a kid his age
[‘Noke] 10:18 pm: really? What exactly would you point to?
[ferris] 10:18 pm: Like his ability to climb up that pillar in Laputa
[ferris] 10:19 pm: Which is fine, but I like a little bit of context for what makes him special....not just that the plot calls for it
[‘Noke] 10:19 pm: hmmm
[‘Noke] 10:19 pm: I can see that, it just made sense to me though,
[‘Noke] 10:19 pm: I dunno
[ferris] 10:19 pm: this is a VERY minor point
[‘Noke] 10:20 pm: but I love the arc Sen goes through, from being a very spoiled kid to learning to fend for herself
[‘Noke] 10:20 pm: and how this change is really gradual and subtle
[ferris] 10:20 pm: right
[‘Noke] 10:20 pm: totally believable
[ferris] 10:20 pm: Exactly - well said
[Films]: Agent York has entered at 10:20 pm
[Agent York] 10:20 pm: Howdy friends
[ferris] 10:21 pm: Hey FLY - hey Noke and I are doing a Spirited Away chat for our marathon....
[ferris] 10:22 pm: (Miyazaki marathon)
[ferris] 10:22 pm: care to listen in?
[ferris] 10:23 pm: (we're saving the transcript for our review)
[Agent York] 10:23 pm: I'm about to go yak
[Agent York] 10:23 pm: I just wanted to stop in when I saw you guys where in here
[Agent York] 10:23 pm: So I could say you guys are tops.
[Agent York] 10:23 pm: But then I learned about a Spirited Away chat  :P
[Agent York] 10:23 pm: So
[Agent York] 10:24 pm: You guys are still tops
[Agent York] 10:24 pm: But Spirited Away  :-[     
[ferris] 10:24 pm: lol
[Films]: Agent York has left at 10:24 pm
[Films]: Agent York has entered at 10:24 pm
[Agent York] 10:24 pm: Totally got logged out
[ferris] 10:25 pm: So, Noke....did I kinda answer your question about the characters?
[‘Noke] 10:26 pm: I guess so
[‘Noke] 10:26 pm: I think it may simply be a personal reaction for us
[ferris] 10:26 pm: Well I guess in the end it comes down to personal preference.
[‘Noke] 10:26 pm: I guess so
[‘Noke] 10:26 pm: I think the characters in Mononoke make a bigger impact for me then spirited Away, and for you vice versa
[Films]: Agent York has left at 10:27 pm
[‘Noke] 10:27 pm: I think he does a good job on both films, but there's more emphasis on the characters in Mononoke, while spirited away is one character and the characters around her who affect her
[ferris] 10:27 pm: I didn't really understand everyone's motivations in Mononoke.  I'll admit that may be my own failing.  I hate to compare the two because they are such different films,
[‘Noke] 10:27 pm: they REALLY are
[‘Noke] 10:28 pm: The motivations in Mononoke are muddled and sometimes not defined, but I understand
[‘Noke] 10:28 pm: both the motivations, and why you didn't quite get it


[ferris] 10:29 pm: one thing that did turn me OFF of Spirited Away was Zaniba (sp?)
[ferris] 10:30 pm: ...not the character, but her rendering...
[‘Noke] 10:30 pm: the twin sister?
[ferris] 10:30 pm: Well both
[‘Noke] 10:30 pm: the way she was drawn or written?
[ferris] 10:30 pm: Their drawings were a bit over the top in the grotesque department.
[ferris] 10:30 pm: drawn
[ferris] 10:30 pm: "grotesque" is too strong a word
[ferris] 10:30 pm: there is one scene in the nursery where she's yelling and it just gets a bit 'out there'
[‘Noke] 10:30 pm: I disagree on that front
[‘Noke] 10:31 pm: I feel as though Ubaba is a bit too villainous, she's not near a villain but I wanted a bit more of a grey area
[‘Noke] 10:32 pm: or just a bit more of something to latch onto
[‘Noke] 10:32 pm: but the way she's drawn I thought worked really well, it fits the bossy Ubaba and the kind, grandmotherly Zaniba
[‘Noke] 10:32 pm: I guess so, but that scene in the nursery is something else entirely
[‘Noke] 10:33 pm: that's Miyazaki going overboard with the character, with her hair flying and everything
[ferris] 10:32 pm: huh - I latched onto her character great!  I thought she was pretty layered.  VERY interesting
[ferris] 10:33 pm: See - its further evidence that we bring our own backgrounds into things and infuse them into the characters on screen.
[‘Noke] 10:33 pm: and that's why we react differently to certain films, yah, I agree
[‘Noke] 10:33 pm: anyways, I can see how you latched onto her, makes sense, just for me personally I needed just that bit more
[‘Noke] 10:34 pm: but I still think she works really well
[ferris] 10:34 pm: well - in either event - certainly we are discussing two films where Miyazaki gives lots of room for people to bring their own stuff to it
[‘Noke] 10:36 pm: yep, definitely


[‘Noke] 10:36 pm: who was your favourite character?
[ferris] 10:36 pm: So did you want to talk about any thematic elements?
[ferris] 10:36 pm: LOL
[ferris] 10:36 pm: I'll answer yours then I'll ask you the same question
[ferris] 10:36 pm: I though No Face was the best
[ferris] 10:37 pm: Very unique character - not something I'd seen before
[ferris] 10:37 pm: Him drinking tea at Zaniba's house was cracking me up
[‘Noke] 10:38 pm: and eating the cheesecake     
[ferris] 10:38 pm: right.
[ferris] 10:39 pm: How about you?  What was your favorite character?
[‘Noke] 10:39 pm: well, no face
[‘Noke] 10:39 pm: and, of course, the soot creatures
[‘Noke] 10:39 pm: they are just amazing in everyway
[ferris] 10:40 pm: ah yes
[‘Noke] 10:40 pm: the way they go crazy over the food is brilliant
[ferris] 10:40 pm: and the biggest laugh of the movie when they all drop the rocks on themselves
[‘Noke] 10:41 pm: of course, that was amazing
[‘Noke] 10:41 pm: and when they get mad and form a barrier around Sen
[ferris] 10:41 pm: so do you like these guys better, or those white forest sprites in Mononoke?
[‘Noke] 10:41 pm: oh god
[‘Noke] 10:41 pm: ummm...
[‘Noke] 10:41 pm: I'm gonna go with.....the forest sprites
[‘Noke] 10:42 pm: I guess the soot creatures are a better creation, but the forest sprites contribute more to the film
[‘Noke] 10:42 pm: like how they are falling from the trees when the forest spirit loses his head
[‘Noke] 10:42 pm: and the wondertastical final shot
[‘Noke] 10:42 pm: you'd go with the soot creatures?
[ferris] 10:43 pm: tough one.
[ferris] 10:43 pm: I might go with the forest sprites too
[‘Noke] 10:43 pm: ooh
[ferris] 10:43 pm: They're so subtle in their awesomeness
[‘Noke] 10:43 pm: we should totally make this a poll question
[ferris] 10:44 pm: yeah.  good idea


[‘Noke] 10:44 pm: shall we move onto themes?
[ferris] 10:44 pm: sure
[‘Noke] 10:45 pm: what did you take away from this movie the most?
[ferris] 10:46 pm: Well, the whole river spirit thing....man's affect on the natural course of a river
[‘Noke] 10:46 pm: basically Haku's plotline?
[‘Noke] 10:46 pm: how a river became a worker in a bathhouse?
[ferris] 10:47 pm: having lived in Houston where all the river banks are literally cemented into place.  it's awful
[‘Noke] 10:47 pm: oh
[ferris] 10:47 pm: how the river is "dead" like the spirits and comes to life only and night when the spirits do
[‘Noke] 10:47 pm: hmmm...
[ferris] 10:48 pm: that the building of the (human) park caused the original waterway to be diverted
[ferris] 10:48 pm: very much harkening the issues of the big dig in neighboring China
[‘Noke] 10:49 pm: no, that's an element
[‘Noke] 10:49 pm: I didn't really see that but it makes sense
[ferris] 10:49 pm: well it's there - it's not the main theme obviously, but there are a few explicit references...
[‘Noke] 10:50 pm: indeed
[ferris] 10:50 pm: there are two "rivers" so to speak - the one the train drives through, and the boy who forgot his name
[‘Noke] 10:51 pm: the one the train drives through is still there, it just seems to be forgotten
[ferris] 10:51 pm: it's not there at the beginning of the film....the father says "a river once was here, but got diverted when they put the theme park in"
[ferris] 10:52 pm: then that evening when Chihiro starts to "fade", the water appears....this is when that riverboat shows up
[‘Noke] 10:52 pm: I can see that
[‘Noke] 10:52 pm: the river comes to life with the spirits
[ferris] 10:52 pm: then it's gone again at the end, when they leave.
[‘Noke] 10:52 pm: oh yah
[‘Noke] 10:52 pm: when the spirits leave
[‘Noke] 10:53 pm: it's interesting to see that
[ferris] 10:53 pm: I'm reading a lot into it, but I love river imagery in films.
[ferris] 10:53 pm: Everything from Fitzcaraldo to Pocahontas
[‘Noke] 10:54 pm: River imagery IS wonderful
[‘Noke] 10:54 pm: one of the reasons I love Deliverance so much


[ferris] 10:54 pm: you want to hit on a theme that you latch onto?
[‘Noke] 10:55 pm: well, there's a great argument for how the way we, and especially Americans, live, the capitalist society, is going to destroy us, and makes us lazy, and how the old way of simply making your way in the world by working is what society should be
[ferris] 10:57 pm: yep - that's right there front and center - the parents and the food, the workers and the gold, and...(dang I'm so bad with names) the witch and her baby
[‘Noke] 10:57 pm: there's the great moment where the parents are consuming food, and Sen is getting worried and the dad replies "don't worry, I've got credit cards"
[ferris] 10:57 pm: yeah -
[ferris] 10:58 pm: I teach a "cut up your cards and get out of debt" financial class - you can be assured I got a good chuckle out of THAT one!
[‘Noke] 10:58 pm: And the life of someone who does work hard but is purely about profit, Ubaba (there's your name :)) doesn't notice her baby as much, like when Haku says "something important is missing to you" the first thing she does is look at the gold
[‘Noke] 10:59 pm: but then the people who are heroised are Sen's sort of mentor in the bathhouse, the older girl, and Kamaji, the boiler man, and Zaniba, the people who simply just make enough to get by
[ferris] 10:59 pm: well - and there's a deeper parenting message there....
[ferris] 11:00 pm: ....we have a whole generation of kids with both parents working to afford lots of nice stuff for their kids - in the name of love
[‘Noke] 11:00 pm: but we should really be loving our kids through love, not money
[ferris] 11:01 pm: yep.
[‘Noke] 11:02 pm: definitely


[ferris] 11:03 pm: well....I might be wrapping up....Are there any other topics you want to cover?
[‘Noke] 11:03 pm: how about the mysticism?
[‘Noke] 11:04 pm: the idea that there's another world beyond ours filled with creatures and magic
[‘Noke] 11:04 pm: and how it fits in with real life
[‘Noke] 11:04 pm: Steve talked about it in his essay, and I agree with this, that Miyazaki always puts world son screen which makes me look for mysticism and magic in my own life.
[‘Noke] 11:05 pm: and believe in these alternate worlds
[‘Noke] 11:05 pm: what do you think?
[ferris] 11:07 pm: I guess I don't have much to add to that.  As a theme that is far less interesting to me, because it's been done so many times, from Wizard of Oz to Pan's Labyrinth, but Miyazaki does it really well
[ferris] 11:07 pm: I do like the theme natural things being embodied by spirits -
[‘Noke] 11:07 pm: mmhm
[ferris] 11:08 pm: a question more discussed in Mononoke
[ferris] 11:08 pm: and Laputa (thinking through the others....)
[‘Noke] 11:08 pm: Totoro
[ferris] 11:08 pm: yes - good
[‘Noke] 11:09 pm: Not so much Howl's or Porco though, I don't think
[‘Noke] 11:09 pm: Nausicaa maybe
[ferris] 11:09 pm: oh yes very true
[ferris] 11:09 pm: the whole living/dying forest theme
[ferris] 11:10 pm: it's the Avatar thing - a natural connectiveness
[ferris] 11:10 pm: and a balance that shouldn't be upset
[‘Noke] 11:10 pm: although Avatar does it by ACTUALLY having the people connect to the forest and nature
[ferris] 11:10 pm: lol
[ferris] 11:11 pm: what are you saying?  not subtle?  LOL
[ferris] 11:11 pm: Tell me your thoughts about the mysticism?
[‘Noke] 11:11 pm: Well, most of avatar is actually a moving subtle, arty piece, so it does fit
[ferris] 11:12 pm: yes - I especially like the subtle anti-military theme - it's hard to notice, but it's there on repeated viewings
[‘Noke] 11:12 pm: huh?
[‘Noke] 11:13 pm: is it really anti military? I totally didn’t see that
[‘Noke] 11:13 pm: this movie works on so many levels
[ferris] 11:13 pm: yeah let's switch topics!!  :)
[ferris] 11:13 pm:  8)     
[‘Noke] 11:13 pm: lets!


[ferris] 11:15 pm: anyways I have to go soon, so do you want to start to wrap up? Did you still have some thematic themes to point out?
[‘Noke] 11:15 pm: I think I'm spirited awayed out
[‘Noke] 11:15 pm: I could talk more but I don't have anything else to say
[ferris] 11:15 pm: yep - I 'm about there too.
[‘Noke] 11:15 pm: you? Have nothing left to say about this movie?
[‘Noke] 11:15 pm: impossible
[ferris] 11:15 pm: It's probably at this point more than anyone will read.  You are given my full editor's blessing
[‘Noke] 11:16 pm: :D   
[ferris] 11:16 pm: as they say "you get final cut"
[‘Noke] 11:16 pm: should I include FLY popping in and us talking about football/days of heaven and paris texas?
[ferris] 11:17 pm: Put all that in the trailer
[ferris] 11:17 pm: with some Avatar footage     
[‘Noke] 11:17 pm: of crouse!
[‘Noke] 11:17 pm: *course
[‘Noke] 11:18 pm: maybe cut out the days of heaven Paris Texas stuff, as you'll probably do that for your classics marathon
[ferris] 11:18 pm: yeah
[ferris] 11:18 pm: Ok - I'm going to run.  Gotta to take a kid to a blood test. I'm twice as nervous as he is
[‘Noke] 11:18 pm: oh dear
[‘Noke] 11:18 pm: good luck!
[‘Noke] 11:18 pm: ok
[ferris] 11:18 pm: thanks!
[‘Noke] 11:18 pm: cya!
[Films]: ferris has left at 11:19 pm
« Last Edit: June 13, 2010, 03:27:37 PM by 'Noke »
I actually consider a lot of movies to be life-changing! I take them to my heart and they melt into my personality.

Melvil

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Re: 'Noke and Ferris do a little 'Zaki (Miyazaki Marathon + 1 Takahata!)
« Reply #118 on: June 13, 2010, 03:32:45 PM »
(Hi Melvil!)

Hi! ;D

Fun read, guys! Obviously I love to hear people talk about Spirited Away, and hearing what you guys love about it makes me very happy. Much agreement all around. Except this middle of the road business, 'Noke. That's wack. ;)

oldkid

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Re: 'Noke and Ferris do a little 'Zaki (Miyazaki Marathon + 1 Takahata!)
« Reply #119 on: June 13, 2010, 03:40:26 PM »
Your chat-- I laughed, I cried, it moved me, Bob.  Well, I often laughed and the memories of my favorite movie of all time touched me, and it was great.

Interesting how you guys are doing chat differently than Bondo and I in our Bollywood marathon.  Ours is more like a podcast, taking turns monologuing, with the occasional interchange, while yours is more... chatty.  I think you guys had more fun, but ours is easier to read.

I like the way that you just seem to stroll down the SA memory lane, it was fun.

And I'd really like to see FLY's section about Days of Heaven/Paris, Texas  :)
"It's not art unless it has the potential to be a disaster." Bansky