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Author Topic: Best of the Decade: General Discussion  (Read 51924 times)

smirnoff

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Re: Best of the Decade: General Discussion
« Reply #90 on: March 29, 2010, 09:32:41 PM »
It's hard to judge the exact motives behind negative votes, and I think even harder to predict just how it's going to play out. Maybe divisive films make take a hit, and films that are hard to passionately hate may find themselves in contention. And rightly so perhaps.

I think when it comes down to actually filling out a ballot people will consider the full effect each vote might have. Especially with the unranked system we're using.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2010, 09:34:14 PM by smirnoff »

jbissell

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Re: Best of the Decade: General Discussion
« Reply #91 on: March 29, 2010, 09:47:30 PM »
I don't think that's the same thing at all. I have no problem with people voicing their honest opinions in a respectful way, but this seems more like going out of your way to try and sabotage films you know other people love (because if they don't, what's the point?). When I make my best of list, I want to celebrate films I love, I'm not sure how this fits that spirit.

I doubt I'll have any negative votes on mine, simply because I have no problem coming up with 50 films I'd like to support.

Though if I were to use a negative, it'd be for Crash.

tinyholidays

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Re: Best of the Decade: General Discussion
« Reply #92 on: March 29, 2010, 09:52:59 PM »
I don't think that's the same thing at all. I have no problem with people voicing their honest opinions in a respectful way, but this seems more like going out of your way to try and sabotage films you know other people love (because if they don't, what's the point?). When I make my best of list, I want to celebrate films I love, I'm not sure how this fits that spirit.

I doubt I'll have any negative votes on mine, simply because I have no problem coming up with 50 films I'd like to support.

Though if I were to use a negative, it'd be for Crash.

You said it, jbissell.

FifthCityMuse

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Re: Best of the Decade: General Discussion
« Reply #93 on: March 29, 2010, 09:57:51 PM »
any chance of adding screenplays and editing (since cinematography is there) to the list?

With all likelihood too close to best film. With a desire to provide some limitation on the number of categories (due to the work involved) we had to choose the ones that would give us something distinct.
I think you're way off base with this one. I'm coming round to the decision on the directing categories, but I'm finding the leaving out of screenplays really, really frustrating. I don't necessarily agree that they would be that similar to the best film categories. Of course there would be crossover, but there's gonna be crossover everywhere.

I think there's something really foul about us saying that music is more important in film than writing. And I know that's not the intent, but it is the outcome of including score and soundtrack categories, and ignoring screenplay.

And to confirm, I think it would be a very different list. The screenplay for A Serious Man would make my list higher than the film would make the list, or potentially even the Coens, as I'm not that familiar with their body of work. I'm not sure the screenplay for Yi Yi would be as high on my list as the film either.

jbissell

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Re: Best of the Decade: General Discussion
« Reply #94 on: March 29, 2010, 10:20:11 PM »
I think there's something really foul about us saying that music is more important in film than writing. And I know that's not the intent, but it is the outcome of including score and soundtrack categories, and ignoring screenplay.

That did seem a bit odd to have 2 music categories and none for writing. I guess I can understand not splitting between adapted and original but it does seem a little odd not to have any.

Verite

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Re: Best of the Decade: General Discussion
« Reply #95 on: March 29, 2010, 11:04:16 PM »
I don't think that's the same thing at all. I have no problem with people voicing their honest opinions in a respectful way, but this seems more like going out of your way to try and sabotage films you know other people love (because if they don't, what's the point?).

My issue with your reasoning is assuming malicious intent behind a negative vote.  And along the lines of what Ferris said, the mods should rename that aspect of this project thing because it does sounds malicious, honestly.  

When I make my best of list, I want to celebrate films I love, I'm not sure how this fits that spirit.

I agree, but what I gather from the mods' comments, they feel that that's not all what this project is about.  It's about a collective representation of what Filmspotters think of the decade.  Part of that is respectfully voicing that, say, Film A is top 26-50 material but not top 25.
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Melvil

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Re: Best of the Decade: General Discussion
« Reply #96 on: March 29, 2010, 11:16:57 PM »
I don't think that's the same thing at all. I have no problem with people voicing their honest opinions in a respectful way, but this seems more like going out of your way to try and sabotage films you know other people love (because if they don't, what's the point?).

My issue with your reasoning is assuming malicious intent behind a negative vote.  And along the lines of what Ferris said, the mods should rename that aspect of this project thing because it does sounds malicious, honestly.  

When I make my best of list, I want to celebrate films I love, I'm not sure how this fits that spirit.

I agree, but what I gather from the mods' comments, they feel that that's not all what this project is about.  It's about a collective representation of what Filmspotters think of the decade.  Part of that is respectfully voicing that, say, Film A is top 26-50 material but not top 25.

I'm just trying to figure out the thought process here. If I were to cast a negative vote, I wouldn't waste it on something that doesn't stand a good shot of making the list in the first place. That leaves films that are widely loved. If they're widely loved, that means I'm in the minority. If I'm in the minority, why do I want to deny everybody else from having that movie on the list? And if I'm the only one that doesn't like it, does keeping it off of the list make it "representative" of the Filmspotting whole?

I apologize for complaining about this, I appreciate the work being done by the group of people organizing it. I just see the only use of this rule being contrary to the spirit of a community celebration.

Bondo

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Re: Best of the Decade: General Discussion
« Reply #97 on: March 29, 2010, 11:36:14 PM »
How about instead of calling it a negative vote we called it a counter vote. There is all kinds of strategy you can use in your voting if you so desire to help make more off your favorite movies make it and fewer of the movies you don't like.

First off, you might not include a film you love if it is an obscure one that isn't likely to get much love from anyone else (for me this might be Bend It Like Beckham...not sure that many people who have seen it dislike it, but I've not known many other people to consider it great). This would be like voting for Nader...you aren't going to win but your second favorite might lose, so you focus on those with more chance of winning.

Also, you aren't likely to use a counter-vote on just any film you dislike, because many of those probably aren't in the running for a spot either, especially at the cost of a voting slot. Thus you will tend to focus your counter-vote on something that has a good chance of making it in hopes of knocking it from first to second tier or out altogether. I just don't see what is so controversial about saying that if there is a film (let's take Crash since I like that film) where five people put it in but another five are so passionate that they'd be willing to use a counter-vote. Shouldn't this film be considered worse than a film (say Howl's Moving Castle) that seems like it could get five votes but isn't likely to draw counter-votes? This lets less divisive films prosper but also lets less well seen films prosper. If a film only has five people who have seen it in that last scenario but all of them love it, that would seem more important than a film with 20 viewers where 5 love it, 10 are in the middle, and 5 hate it.

At the end of the day, it is not about being negative but about getting a more accurate view of what is actually preferred, it just takes knowing what people don't like to do that.

Melvil

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Re: Best of the Decade: General Discussion
« Reply #98 on: March 30, 2010, 12:21:34 AM »
How about instead of calling it a negative vote we called it a counter vote. There is all kinds of strategy you can use in your voting if you so desire to help make more off your favorite movies make it and fewer of the movies you don't like.

First off, you might not include a film you love if it is an obscure one that isn't likely to get much love from anyone else (for me this might be Bend It Like Beckham...not sure that many people who have seen it dislike it, but I've not known many other people to consider it great). This would be like voting for Nader...you aren't going to win but your second favorite might lose, so you focus on those with more chance of winning.

I've always subscribed to the train of thought that the best way to handle your ballot is to just be honest about it. Figuring out the best way to game the system doesn't appeal to me. My list of best films will actually be the list of films I like best. That's probably why I'm so opposed to this idea.

By the way, will there be negative voting in all categories or just best film?

Bondo

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Re: Best of the Decade: General Discussion
« Reply #99 on: March 30, 2010, 12:34:56 AM »
By the way, will there be negative voting in all categories or just best film?

Just best film. There are more votes in that category so it seemed the place to introduce it.

I'd still like some of those more averse to the concept to take head on the hypothetical voting outcomes. Counter-voting promotes lesser seen but highly loved and love/like films over love/hate films. Does this not make sense when collating a forum-wide best of list rather than promoting films with relatively mixed or even tepid (lower percentage of those seeing it voting for it) responses that just happen to have been seen a lot?

 

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