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Author Topic: Best of the Decade: General Discussion  (Read 51940 times)

sdedalus

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Re: Best of the Decade: General Discussion
« Reply #100 on: March 30, 2010, 04:07:58 AM »
I would hope that people would be able to come up with 50 films over ten years that they loved.  That's only five per year.  Even if not, we're not required to use all 50 spots, right?  If that's the case, then no one should be voting for films they only kinda tepidly like.
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flieger

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Re: Best of the Decade: General Discussion
« Reply #101 on: March 30, 2010, 04:10:19 AM »
I run out of steam after putting Miami Vice at number one...

Verite

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Re: Best of the Decade: General Discussion
« Reply #102 on: March 30, 2010, 04:13:14 AM »
I've always subscribed to the train of thought that the best way to handle your ballot is to just be honest about it. Figuring out the best way to game the system doesn't appeal to me. My list of best films will actually be the list of films I like best.

While the negative votes are included on one's ballot for Best Film, it's not really a part of one's Best Film list.  For example, someone has listed 1 to 47 all the films of the decade that he/she loves and has included 3 negative votes.  The 47 films comprise the Best Film list.  The 3 negative votes are not part of said person's Best Film list.  So, that person's ballot is as honest as can be.  It's not about sabotaging or gaming the system.  You mention this is a project of celebration.  By the inclusion of the counter-vote/negative vote, it's a celebration with an element of evaluation.


I don't think that's the same thing at all. I have no problem with people voicing their honest opinions in a respectful way, but this seems more like going out of your way to try and sabotage films you know other people love (because if they don't, what's the point?).

My issue with your reasoning is assuming malicious intent behind a negative vote.  And along the lines of what Ferris said, the mods should rename that aspect of this project thing because it does sounds malicious, honestly.  

When I make my best of list, I want to celebrate films I love, I'm not sure how this fits that spirit.

I agree, but what I gather from the mods' comments, they feel that that's not all what this project is about.  It's about a collective representation of what Filmspotters think of the decade.  Part of that is respectfully voicing that, say, Film A is top 26-50 material but not top 25.

I'm just trying to figure out the thought process here. If I were to cast a negative vote, I wouldn't waste it on something that doesn't stand a good shot of making the list in the first place. That leaves films that are widely loved. If they're widely loved, that means I'm in the minority. If I'm in the minority, why do I want to deny everybody else from having that movie on the list? And if I'm the only one that doesn't like it, does keeping it off of the list make it "representative" of the Filmspotting whole?

Collective representation are poor choices of words on my part.  It's a compiled result.  You see the counter-vote as an act of sabotage, politics, and/or denial; I see it as someone respectfully and honestly saying "if this is making it, I don't agree or think that it should be that high" (yes, it's conjecture).  It reflects one Filmspotter's opinion of the decade in film and I think that should be factored since the final results are a compilation of the participants' opinion via shorthand (i.e., lists).

At the same time, I don't think there will be many counter-votes cast, anyway.  Though, I do think it's more interesting to get a result that is arrived at via taking into account what people think are the best films and what people think aren't the cream of the crop as opposed to arriving there just by what people think are the best because I think the former is more critical to the extent that a list can be.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2010, 04:27:53 AM by Still Schmer »
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Bondo

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Re: Best of the Decade: General Discussion
« Reply #103 on: March 30, 2010, 07:23:12 AM »
I would hope that people would be able to come up with 50 films over ten years that they loved.  That's only five per year.  Even if not, we're not required to use all 50 spots, right?  If that's the case, then no one should be voting for films they only kinda tepidly like.

You don't have to use all the spots and I wasn't meaning to imply that an individual person would be giving a positive vote to a film they only tepidly like (I certainly could vote 50 positives without hesitation, but will probably opt to use 5 of those for counter-votes). I was speaking at a macro level. In a positive-vote only rule, a film with a mixed response (many who love, many who hate) or a tepid response (many who have seen but relatively few who love) would rate stronger than those with generally good responses (some love without hate) or strong response (few who have seen but relatively many who love).

P.S. While our official results will incorporate the counter-votes, I am sure we will be running calculations without the counter-votes to see what impact the counter-voting had. Obviously the people using counter-votes might have used those slots to vote for something else in a way that could make a difference and we won't be able to take that into account, but for those who don't like counter-voting, you can at least have that to chew on.

smirnoff

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Re: Best of the Decade: General Discussion
« Reply #104 on: March 30, 2010, 08:05:36 AM »
You just have to ask yourself "do I want to see Juno in a Best of the Decade list which I had a say in?" You will have to live with that for the rest of your life... unless of course you did something about it :)

Melvil

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Re: Best of the Decade: General Discussion
« Reply #105 on: March 30, 2010, 10:06:08 AM »
Collective representation are poor choices of words on my part.  It's a compiled result.  You see the counter-vote as an act of sabotage, politics, and/or denial; I see it as someone respectfully and honestly saying "if this is making it, I don't agree or think that it should be that high" (yes, it's conjecture).  It reflects one Filmspotter's opinion of the decade in film and I think that should be factored since the final results are a compilation of the participants' opinion via shorthand (i.e., lists).

At the same time, I don't think there will be many counter-votes cast, anyway.  Though, I do think it's more interesting to get a result that is arrived at via taking into account what people think are the best films and what people think aren't the cream of the crop as opposed to arriving there just by what people think are the best because I think the former is more critical to the extent that a list can be.

I understand what is trying to be achieved, but I think the counter-voting is a really messy and inaccurate way of achieving it. In order to accurately and fairly account for what people really think, I suggest this: after accepting initial ballots every film that receives x amount of votes (to be determined based on level of participation and how those nominations are spread) gets turned into a final ballot where each person scores every movie. That way everyone's opinion of every movie gets represented. Movies that are loved by some and liked by others will naturally rise higher than those that are more divisive.

I think this would solve my problems with the counter-vote system, while still allowing people to affect the outcome of movies they don't like.

jbissell

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Re: Best of the Decade: General Discussion
« Reply #106 on: March 30, 2010, 10:19:14 AM »
melvil, I'm guessing that the vast majority of us won't bother with counter votes but I do understand and mostly agree with what you're saying. I have no interest in employing any kind of strategy with my top 50 (it'll just be the 50 I love most) and I'm guessing most people feel the same way. I'm always more interested in the individual lists with these things anyways.

Jared

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Re: Best of the Decade: General Discussion
« Reply #107 on: March 30, 2010, 01:44:17 PM »
must say, Im not a huge fan of the counter votes either and doubt Ill use any.

They are only going to be used on movies that are locks on this list in an "all positive votes" system that are also devisive. I see movies like Lost in Translation or LOTR being potential casulties, in favor of the movies with the 51st and 52nd most positive votes, which really doesnt seem right.

FLYmeatwad

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Re: Best of the Decade: General Discussion
« Reply #108 on: March 30, 2010, 01:58:57 PM »
If anyone doesn't want to use their counter votes I will be glad to take them off of your hands.

'Noke

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Re: Best of the Decade: General Discussion
« Reply #109 on: March 30, 2010, 02:05:24 PM »
I made all of these points earlier but none of the other Moderators listened to me:

You just have to ask yourself "do I want to see Juno in a Best of the Decade list which I had a say in?" You will have to live with that for the rest of your life... unless of course you did something about it :)


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I actually consider a lot of movies to be life-changing! I take them to my heart and they melt into my personality.