Author Topic: 1SO vs. the 00s Rebuttal Marathon  (Read 85540 times)

Sam the Cinema Snob

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Re: 1SO vs. the 00s Rebuttal Marathon
« Reply #290 on: July 14, 2010, 11:06:56 PM »
You got me.


1SO

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Re: 1SO vs. the 00s Rebuttal Marathon - Lagaan
« Reply #291 on: July 15, 2010, 03:24:58 AM »
Rebuttal Marathon Update



Lagaan: Once Upon A Time In India

Quote from: Bondo
Lagaan, one of only three Indian films to be nominated for a Best Foreign Language Oscar, applies the famed Bollywood style to a story of fighting against colonial oppression. In this case, the oppression is in the form of heavy taxes (Lagaan) that a village is behind on. Desperate to be free of the this burden, they negotiate with the British overseer a double-or-nothing wager over a game of cricket. If the Indians (who do not know the game) win, they are freed from their burden for two years but if they lose, they owe triple taxes. And so the film goes a bit like a sports film, watching the village learn how to play and ultimately the decisive cricket match. Not only is the film dramatically effective, it is a very good introduction to cricket, for those who are not familiar. You learn alongside the village. Lagaan would likely have a secure place in any Top 5 Sports Films list of mine. I like that the tax based anti-British colonialism has shades of America's own revolutionary struggle in it; only India got a nationally beloved sport out of it and we got teabaggers.
Let's play the Feud.  

Top 3 Answers are on the board.  Here is the question...
Name a reason why Bollywood movies don't play well in the United States.

1. Too Much Singing and Dancing
2. They're just too damn long.
3. Melodrama

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that Lagaan is one of the Top 10 Bollywood films ever made.  It's certainly the best one I've ever seen.  I studied them when back in 2001 I worked as an Assistant Director on the film Kaante.  The Assistant to the Director (completely different job) gave me this insight.  "95% of all Bollywood films suck.  But they're very popular because they give people what they want to see."  So how does this apply to Laagan?

Laagan is definitely a crowd pleaser, the first half is entertaining in much the same way as Ocean's 11.  The village is made up of a lot of fun people and it's enjoyable watching them come together to defeat those stiff upper lip chappies who think they're so much better just because they wear buttoned shirts and speak the Queen's.  The villain is in the mold of Snidley Whiplash, just a couple of steps more subtle than The Duke from Moulin Rouge.  You really want to see him get his.

And the town had won me completely over Julie Andrews style.  A long overdue rain is coming and the village sings out in joy for about 5 minutes, only to notice that the clouds are passing over.  ("We started celebrating too early.")  Loved it.  Actually, I loved all the music, and if I was to cut the film down from its 224min running time, I wouldn't be cutting the songs.  I was disappointed there wasn't a song about how to play cricket.  Every time the townsfolk would practice, this wonderfully bouncy score would come in and I was primed for a happy cricket song.  But it's just a tease.

BTW, that wasn't a typo.  Laagan is 3 hours and 44 minutes.  And one of my big complaints is that it's really too damn long.  I find that Bollywood films tend to over explain everything.  They really want to make sure you can follow the plot.  So when the Colonel tells the Captain he'll be paying the taxes if Britain loses, the Captain says it back.  Then the Captain tells his friend.  There's a lot of this stuff slowing down the momentum.  Like the shot above.  That isn't just a publicity photo.  The group naturally line up like that.  Then the camera cuts in and pans across the group one at a time.  I'm thinking "We Get It!".  To its credit, you might not notice this since the film does move along at a fairly nice clip.  But when I know a film is pushing 4 hours, I start wondering why, and I start thinking about what can be cut.

Where I really felt the length was in the cricket match, which takes up most of the final 90min.  (It's a movie unto itself.)  Because the cricket is given a lot of time, like Bondo said, it makes for a very good intro to the game.  But Laagan also shows how uncinematic cricket can be.  I mean it's a fairly dull game to shoot, and because of the way it's scored there's very little tension until the final 15 minutes.  On top of that, I didn't get any unexpected moments or truly nifty payoffs.  It's a fairly square depiction.  There's a character who throws a wicked curve ball, but on the 1st day of the game he can't make it happen.  Then a couple of days later, with no explanation, he has his curve back.  I started missing Shaolin Soccer, whose big game takes the exact opposite approach.  And while Stephen Chow style wouldn't work here, I appreciate his creativity.



As for the melodrama, I had a couple of problems with that.  The woman pictured above is Rachel Shelley.  (Any fans of "The L Word"?)  I liked her screen presence and at first really liked her character.  She encourages Aamir Khan, who leads the Indian cricket team, and raises jealousy in a local girl who's hoping to marry Khan.  It's very cute and there's a great number about the jealousy that I thought solved the issue.  Then the film moves the colonial woman into a love triangle.  The Indian couple sing this lovely song, and then it cuts to Shelly saying how's she's also in love.  It really soured me on her, and the whole thing is filmed like we're supposed to be swept up in her romance as well.

This is not right.

There's also a subplot about a traitor among the villagers.  His reasoning always seemed a bit unclear and when he's found out and faces down Khan, it's over the top.  Like something you would've seen Eric Roberts and Mickey Rourke do back in the 80's.

When Laagan reached its Intermission, it was destined for the Top 100, and I it's still a must for anybody looking to experience some Bollywood.  I could cut out about 45-75min and not lose any sleep, and what I cut would still be more interesting than any 30min of The New World.


Added to My Top 100:
68. In America (oldkid)
84. Good Night, and Good Luck
100. The Merchant of Venice (smirnoff)

Recommend:
Children Underground
Cloudy With a Chance of Meatballs
Deep Water
Devils on the Doorstep
Hedwig and the Angry Inch
High Fidelity
Lagaan: Once Upon A Time In India
Man Push Cart
The Woodsman

Somewhat Like/respect:
25th Hour
Food Inc.
Goodbye Lenin!
The Return
Sweet Sixteen
Together
Vera Drake
XXY

Did Not Care For:
Children of Men
Dans Paris
Das Experiment
Duck Season
Kontroll
Morvern Callar
Taxidermia
To Be and To Have
« Last Edit: February 03, 2011, 12:40:32 AM by 1SO »

smirnoff

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Re: 1SO vs. the 00s Rebuttal Marathon
« Reply #292 on: July 15, 2010, 07:16:14 AM »
It was sounding pretty good, and then...

Laagan is 3 hours and 44 minutes.




Bondo

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Re: 1SO vs. the 00s Rebuttal Marathon
« Reply #293 on: July 15, 2010, 08:57:50 AM »
Yeah, the lengths of Bollywood films can almost never be justified on the purely artistic basis, but then I think of modest Indian folk who really need to get a good bargain on entertainment and it makes me feel like it isn't so bad to sit through an extraneous hour. In some ways this is why Bride and Prejudice is my favorite Bollywood-ish movie. It is made for a Western audience and thus isn't drawn out so much. It also has the benefit of that classic source material (and is in English). Second would be Veer-Zaara with Lagaan third and Sholay from my current marathon fourth.

I can't say I'm ultimately disappointed by Lagaan missing out on your top 100 as it is borderline on my own top 100 for the decade. It, Kontroll and XXY would all probably be in the 76-100 area. Of the ones I got into the marathon, The Woodsman is the only that is right toward the top.

1SO

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Re: 1SO vs. the 00s Rebuttal Marathon - Shotgun Stories
« Reply #294 on: July 17, 2010, 01:36:29 AM »
Rebuttal Marathon Update



Shotgun Stories

Quote from: THATguy
Jeff Nichols really struck gold here.  The backdrop is perfect.  Modern rural Arkansas feels familiar (to anyone whose lived in the small town South, this FELT like a town where some of my relatives live) and so do the characters.  These could be people that you see on the street corner.  While so many directors try so hard for a real feeling, and many actually end up trying to hard, Nichols seems to handle it deftly on his first feature.

If you asked me a character actor who has a bright future, my recent response would absolutely be Michael Shannon.  From memorable bit roles in films like Before the Devil Knows You're Dead to being the best thing about Revolutionary Road, he's become someone who I look forward to every new role, because I have no doubts that he's going to be excellent in it.  That being said, this might be his best role.  He's absolutely incredible here as Son, showing incredible subtlety and strength, demanding your attention every time he is on the screen.  He was an easy pick for Best Actor in my Best of the Decade ballot.  That being said, writing about it, I definitely overlooked Douglas Ligon's Boy.  For being an unprofessional actor, he really does a great job here.

What makes the film great, even more than the performances, or the setting, is the tone and mood.  It's a thriller that actually maintains a tense mood throughout.  It builds to a boil, and really, I know this is cliche, but it keeps you on the edge of your seat waiting to see how it will play out.
After finding quotes from many others who agree with THATguy, it was a great relief to find this...

Shotgun Stories didn't entertain or enlighten me; I was disappointed in the film, especially after the praise heaped on it.
While I agree with the reasons for liking Shotgun Stories, as it played out I found myself thinking, "is this all there is?"  Yes, the rural details feel very authentic and the characters come off like a realistic bunch of hillbillies.  In one sense Shannon is the least authentic because I'd seen him in other stuff.  He's such a good actor though, that he fit right in.  (As for this being his Best Performance I have to go with Bug.)

I think where my viewing experience was different from the majority is that I didn't find much to the tone and mood, except that this felt like a low budget indie.  After the initial confrontation at the funeral, I though the movie drifted until the car wash scene and then lost its tension again until the snake.  I found myself using a lot more of my seat than just the edge.

My favorite moment was the 14 seconds of black that happen right after a key moment.  I really was tense there, and definitely wondering how things were going to spiral downwards after that.  (This is also where Douglas Ligon manages to steal the movie from Shannon.)  You might think I wanted a more sensational climax, but I actually didn't mind how it all played out.  This was right for the realism of the story.  Just didn't find much of interest in the story.


Added to My Top 100:
68. In America (oldkid)
84. Good Night, and Good Luck
100. The Merchant of Venice (smirnoff)

Recommend:
Children Underground
Cloudy With a Chance of Meatballs
Deep Water
Devils on the Doorstep
Hedwig and the Angry Inch
High Fidelity
Lagaan: Once Upon A Time In India
Man Push Cart
The Woodsman

Somewhat Like/respect:
25th Hour
Food Inc.
Goodbye Lenin!
The Return
Shotgun Stories
Sweet Sixteen
Together
Vera Drake
XXY

Did Not Care For:
Children of Men
Dans Paris
Das Experiment
Duck Season
Kontroll
Morvern Callar
Taxidermia
To Be and To Have
« Last Edit: May 21, 2012, 02:54:29 PM by 1SO »

Sam the Cinema Snob

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Re: 1SO vs. the 00s Rebuttal Marathon
« Reply #295 on: July 17, 2010, 11:54:30 AM »
I think, for me, what makes Shotgun Stories so great outside the tone, mood and idilic pace of the piece, is the last act, which I found to be one of the most emotionally powerful last acts of a film.

Of course, it's more what I want out of a movie and less of the masochism that tends to permeates so many of these stories.

ˇKeith!

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Re: 1SO vs. the 00s Rebuttal Marathon
« Reply #296 on: July 17, 2010, 12:34:11 PM »
Quote
I think where my viewing experience was different from the majority is that I didn't find much to the tone and mood, except that this felt like a low budget indie.

pretty much exactly.

1SO

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Re: 1SO vs. the 00s Rebuttal Marathon - Once
« Reply #297 on: July 17, 2010, 03:25:22 PM »
Rebuttal Marathon Update



Once

Quote from: Humby
It is so simple, so real and so emotional that it transported me into the lives of these two characters as they spent a small amount of time together recording music. What lifts ONCE above other small films is the music that was created for the film and performed by the film’s stars, Glen Hansard and Maketa Irglova.

I have never played in a band or written a song, but after watching ONCE, I felt like I was a part of the recording of these beautiful songs and I was emotionally invested with the characters and what they were creating. These feelings led to my reaction to a moment in the film when, after recording the album, the band heads to the beach to unwind. There is nothing that happens of note in this scene. It is a car ride followed by hanging on the beach, playing Frisbee and just fooling around. It is the emotional release that comes with that scene that makes it remarkable. I have had moments like this in my life and this film captured that feeling like I have never seen.
More Praise

I really liked the characters in Once, but it never captured my heart like it did so many others.  I always saw it as a somewhat slight mood piece, similar to Lost in Translation.
2nd viewing.  Heart Captured!  :D

First time through, I wasn't ready for the film's tone.  I liked Glen and Maketa, but I was needy for some plot.  I kept waiting for more to happen.  Didn't see the forest for the trees.  This time I really enjoyed their company.  This time I realized how I missed their company. 

I haven't rewatched Before Sunset yet, but Once could be a companion piece to Before Sunrise.  We're on the inside, in the cramped rooms with them as the relationship grows.  When he asks her to stay the night and she leaves, you can actually pinpoint the moment when my heart breaks in half.  By being so intimate, Once presents one of the decades most complicated relationships.  As you learn more about her, you could start to wonder what Maketa's doing with him.  And while her solo "If You Want Me" doesn't completely answer the question, it feels like as good an answer as you could hope for in real life.  This is immediately followed by Glen's backstory, "Lies, Lies, Lies" set to a blistering montage detailing the rise and fall of his last relationship.  A relationship he still can't close the book on.

I wish I had been keeping track of scenes and moments from the decade that could be used in a magical movie montage.  The "Falling Slowly" scene would be in there.  It's not even the song, it's the beautiful way he teaches it to her.  It got dusty in the living room.  Before the credits rolled, it would get dusty a couple of more times.

Once is rough and raw and sometimes hits a note that reminds you it's a movie and not a documentary, (like the overdone way the Studio producer puts down the band, only to be turned around by the music.)  Maketa's not a good actress in the first scene, but she quickly relaxes and I love the way she keeps firing out personal questions.  She's endearingly snoopy.  I wish the beach scene was set to a new song.  I get that it fits with the characters emotions at the time, but then you could play that track for the entire last third.  My biggest problem is that I love being with the couple so much, most of the scenes with them separated and not singing aren't as special.  When they're together, Once is as Great as you all say.

My thanks to Clovis8 (and all of you) for improving my Top 100.  Once is going in.  The bad news is that it doesn't top In America, and it knocks The Merchant of Venice out.


Added to My Top 100:
68. In America (oldkid)
81. Once (Clovis8)
85. Good Night, and Good Luck

Recommend:
Children Underground
Cloudy With a Chance of Meatballs
Deep Water
Devils on the Doorstep
Hedwig and the Angry Inch
High Fidelity
Lagaan: Once Upon A Time In India
Man Push Cart
The Merchant of Venice
The Woodsman

Somewhat Like/respect:
25th Hour
Food Inc.
Goodbye Lenin!
The Return
Shotgun Stories
Sweet Sixteen
Together
Vera Drake
XXY

Did Not Care For:
Children of Men
Dans Paris
Das Experiment
Duck Season
Kontroll
Morvern Callar
Taxidermia
To Be and To Have

Bondo

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Re: 1SO vs. the 00s Rebuttal Marathon
« Reply #298 on: July 17, 2010, 03:44:41 PM »
That was my experience. First time I watched Once I was like "great soundtrack with an okay movie attached." But then I rewatched it earlier this year and the emotional power of it really hit me, getting it on my Top 117.

Sam the Cinema Snob

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Re: 1SO vs. the 00s Rebuttal Marathon
« Reply #299 on: July 17, 2010, 03:50:09 PM »
Yea, it took me a day of thinking to finally come around to this film. Easily one of the decade's finest.