Poll

Is Michael Bay an auteur

Yes - All of his films bear his indelible stamp.
No - You have to make great films to be an auteur.
Maybe - I can't find any signitaure themes.
He is a Hack

Author Topic: Is Michael Bay an auteur?  (Read 9115 times)

FroHam X

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Re: Is Michael Bay an auteur?
« Reply #30 on: June 08, 2010, 11:40:15 PM »
I respect your little hamster nuts for typing that reply. Not afraid to take an unpopular stand.


But I don't have your back on this one. Good luck!

I wan to say though that I don't think Bay is a better director than Cameron. Not by a long shot. Just that I think he stands out as being more interesting.
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Tim

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Re: Is Michael Bay an auteur?
« Reply #31 on: June 08, 2010, 11:48:35 PM »
Is'nt the more important question. Why is Michael Bay so successful?

Does it really matter if Michael Bay is an auteur or not. Maybe he just fulfulls a need in the market.

Same reason James Cameron is. People need to see the new "Hollywood Blockbuster". 
I blame Star Wars for the advent of the blockbuster. Damn you George Lucas.


Whoa there sparky, let's not compare a great director like Cameron to someone of Bay's ilk, okay...

I would argue that Michael Bay is a far more interesting director than James Cameron if you set aside the quality of their respective films.

I would argue that's insane and that I'll take an inventive director who actually knows how to use his camera over a guy who can't keep the damn camera still for a single second every day of the week.

In my view James Cameron doesn't do much interesting outside of implementing cool new tech and being really good at framing action, but Bay, other than in the Transformers movies is usually a lot more inventive, even when he's overdoing it to the detrement of the film. Some of the shots he gets are incredible, and the way he fetishizes women and military gear, while being terrible in a lot of ways, alone makes analyzing his style of filmmaking more rewarding than with Cameron. At least that's how I see it. Also, The Rock is more basses than any of Camerons movies. You may crucify me now.


I am just more interested in the fact that you are backing the American instead of the Canadian ;)

According to google fight however, you are correct:
http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=james+cameron&word2=michael+bay
Michael bay beats james cameron hands down!


seriously however, you are comparing:

Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen (2009)
Transformers (2007)
The Island (2005)
Bad Boys II (2003)
Pearl Harbor (2001)
Armageddon (1998)
The Rock (1996)
Bad Boys (1995)

with Transformers 3 (ouch!) on the horizon

to:

Avatar (2009)
Aliens of the Deep (2005)
Ghosts of the Abyss (2003)
Titanic (1997)
True Lies (1994)
Terminator 2: Judgment Day (1991)
The Abyss (1989)
Aliens (1986)
The Terminator (1984)
Piranha Part Two: The Spawning (1981)
Xenogenesis (1978)

with Battle Angel (yay!!!!) and Avatar 2 (eck!!!) on the horizon

and sorry, not even Armageddon, The Rock and Bad Boys combined can compare to either The Terminator or Aliens

(and I do believe that The Terminator is the 12th best film ever made!)

"Only cinema narrows its concern down to its content, that is to its story. It should, instead, concern itself with its form, its structure." Peter Greenaway

FroHam X

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Re: Is Michael Bay an auteur?
« Reply #32 on: June 09, 2010, 12:01:04 AM »
Again. You're missing my point. Cameron is obviously a better director. Partly because he's Canadian and partly because he just is. I'm not going to compare their filmographies except to say I genuinely enjoy The Rock more than any Cameron movie. The question of who is the more interesting auteur rests on different qualifications though, and as such I say Bay is more interesting.
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zarodinu

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Re: Is Michael Bay an auteur?
« Reply #33 on: June 09, 2010, 02:48:37 AM »
It takes more than a directors stamp to make an auteur.  There needs to be some unique vision.  Michael Bay is just a Hollywood hack who churns out the same crap other Hollywood hack churn out.  He might have a few unique tricks to making his crappy movies, but ultimately his movies have neither soul nor personality.  If the hack who made GI Joe secretly switched jobs with Michael Bay and directed Transformers, nobody would notice, nor would they notice GI Joe being directed by Michael Bay.   
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'Noke

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Re: Is Michael Bay an auteur?
« Reply #34 on: June 09, 2010, 03:54:54 AM »
Also, The Rock is more basses than any of Camerons movies. You may crucify me now.

I didn't know The Rock was about fish. Hey, maybe Bay has more then just a woman fetish.
I actually consider a lot of movies to be life-changing! I take them to my heart and they melt into my personality.

Tequila

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Re: Is Michael Bay an auteur?
« Reply #35 on: June 09, 2010, 04:01:54 AM »
If the hack who made GI Joe secretly switched jobs with Michael Bay and directed Transformers, nobody would notice, nor would they notice GI Joe being directed by Michael Bay.   
I'm pretty sure I would.
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FroHam X

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Re: Is Michael Bay an auteur?
« Reply #36 on: June 09, 2010, 09:03:28 AM »
It takes more than a directors stamp to make an auteur.  There needs to be some unique vision.  Michael Bay is just a Hollywood hack who churns out the same crap other Hollywood hack churn out.  He might have a few unique tricks to making his crappy movies, but ultimately his movies have neither soul nor personality.  If the hack who made GI Joe secretly switched jobs with Michael Bay and directed Transformers, nobody would notice, nor would they notice GI Joe being directed by Michael Bay.   

You are not giving him enough credit. He has honed a unique style and if you look at his films they contain themes that are shared by all the others. And he really isn't a hack at all. A hack implies that he has no talent. Bay is very talent. He just doesn't always used that talent to tell a good story. If he stuck to doing commercials you wouldn't be calling him a hack.
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Bill Thompson

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Re: Is Michael Bay an auteur?
« Reply #37 on: June 09, 2010, 09:42:00 AM »
It takes more than a directors stamp to make an auteur.  There needs to be some unique vision.  Michael Bay is just a Hollywood hack who churns out the same crap other Hollywood hack churn out.  He might have a few unique tricks to making his crappy movies, but ultimately his movies have neither soul nor personality.  If the hack who made GI Joe secretly switched jobs with Michael Bay and directed Transformers, nobody would notice, nor would they notice GI Joe being directed by Michael Bay.   

You are not giving him enough credit. He has honed a unique style and if you look at his films they contain themes that are shared by all the others. And he really isn't a hack at all. A hack implies that he has no talent. Bay is very talent. He just doesn't always used that talent to tell a good story. If he stuck to doing commercials you wouldn't be calling him a hack.

Hack doesn't just imply a lack of talent, it can also apply an abundance of talent but the lack of intelligence to use it in a quality way. For me Bay falls into the second category, because I see a lot of talent in his work, but in the end I would label him a hack because I don't see someone using that talent in a smart way and thus he is wasting away that talent.

I will say that I still think you're insane when it comes to Bay versus Cameron, I find Cameron to be a far more inventive and interesting director. I love watching what Cameron will do with world creation, shot creation, story tempo and the like, and at this point there isn't a single thing I look forward to in a Bay outing.

zarodinu

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Re: Is Michael Bay an auteur?
« Reply #38 on: June 09, 2010, 11:05:53 AM »
Hack doesn't just imply a lack of talent, it can also apply an abundance of talent but the lack of intelligence to use it in a quality way. For me Bay falls into the second category, because I see a lot of talent in his work, but in the end I would label him a hack because I don't see someone using that talent in a smart way and thus he is wasting away that talent.

This.

Here are some simple question for determining if somebody is an auteur or not.  Does he have any stylistic (not technical) signatures that are unique to him?  What are common themes in his works?  How have his directorial style and themes evolved over time?  Is there a connection between his artistic and thematic evolution?

All these questions are perfectly valid when asked of The Coen Brother, or Polanski, or Miyazaki.  When you ask these about Michael bay you can't help but start laughing because obviously these questions have no answers when asked about a hack. 

I still maintain that nobody would notice if he directed GI Joe or 2012, the hacks who make this stuff are perfectly interchangeable.  I would also add that Bay has very little effect on the actual movie, its written by hack writers, acted out by bad actors who obviously get no help from him, and goes off to the lab where some depressed technician makes the effects.  Michael Bay is like the catering guy, necessary but hardly important.     

 
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FroHam X

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Re: Is Michael Bay an auteur?
« Reply #39 on: June 09, 2010, 11:15:36 AM »
All these questions are perfectly valid when asked of The Coen Brother, or Polanski, or Miyazaki.  When you ask these about Michael bay you can't help but start laughing because obviously these questions have no answers when asked about a hack. 
 

I would say that Michael Bay is more immediately obvious as an auteur than the Coens. Hackery is related to quality. Auteurship is not.
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