Author Topic: Oldkid's Ultimately Cool (And Long) Top 100 Marathon  (Read 75461 times)

oldkid

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Re: Oldkid's Ultimately Cool (And Long) Top 100 Marathon
« Reply #480 on: April 19, 2011, 06:45:51 PM »
Yeah, I watched The Host and it wasn't close to a masterful film as Mother was.  I hope he does more films that focus on a single character.
"It's not art unless it has the potential to be a disaster." Bansky

oldkid

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Re: Oldkid's Ultimately Cool (And Long) Top 100 Marathon
« Reply #481 on: April 19, 2011, 06:56:59 PM »
Kill Bill I and II


There are few people who watch movies who haven’t heard of Quentin Tarantino.  And most of those folks have seen Kill Bill, at least one of the volumes, probably both.  On IMDB and other official sites, the two volumes are considered separate films and this makes sense because they were released some time apart and they each have a different feel and one can say that they attract a different audience.  The first is full of action, and the second is much more dialogue oriented.  However, since I often find movies attractive because of plot, character and theme, it is difficult for me to separate the two films.  These are two volumes of one story, not a complete story with a sequel.  The first movie leaves us in the middle, and the second completes the themes hinted at in the first film.  The two films complete each other, and one should really not be seen without the other.   So, while I understand the need to separate them, I find it almost impossible to do so.  If I was forced to, then I would choose the second one, because it fulfills the promise of the first. 

Technical—5/5—The former video store employee is a master filmmaker.  He has taken his interest in B movies and re-created them to their full potential.  Not only is each scene perfectly stylized and choreographed, but the dialogue adds what no B movie does—create full characters that have an arc. Bill as we see him in flashbacks is not the Bill we are presented with at the end of the film.  The vengeful Bride at the beginning of the film is not the same Bride at the end.  And their motivations aren’t clear until the very end.  Although QT borrows much from martial arts films and action thrillers of all sorts, he creates a world full of real people that surpasses almost all of them.


Interest—5/5—QT works really hard to keep us focused on this film.  Rather than giving us long stretches of dialogue about the relative quality of fast food burgers, he keeps us focused on the story—the revenge of the Bride.  It is so full of action and tension that one could barely turn aside from the screen. 

Tension—5/5—This isn’t just an action film where we go from one fight to another, knowing who will win and half bored through the process.  The stakes increase for the Bride in each fight, and we are given the motivations and strengths of each character as we go on.  Every scene has its own power, and we don’t know how it will end.  Even when watching it the second time, I am stunned with watching the Bride get buried alive, or fight off an army of bodyguards.



Emotional 4/5—Throughout most of this epic, I am unmoved.  Sure, the Bride deserves her revenge, but I don’t really care who wins, who is harmed or what happens.  Each scene is fascinating and tense in the own ways, but emotionally they leave me cold.  Until the final showdown between Bill and The Bride.  I cry each time I see The Bride see the one she didn’t know existed.  And it is as tense and emotional as any couple discussing a divorce, yet the stakes are much higher.   Rarely have I seen a movie come to a more fitting, more fulfilling climax.

Characters—5/5—I struggle with this.  So much work is done on character development, but in the end, do we have even one person that we relate to?  Probably not.  The world of Bill is so far removed from our world, and their motivation is so different from the day to day life of non-assassins.  But, as removed as they are, the characters of Bill, of the Bride and of Bill’s brother, Budd, become, by the end of the film, very human and their motivations can be comprehended.  Again, I am impressed by the slow burn of the film, how it all makes sense by the final scene.



Theme—5/5—I spend a lot more time exploring this in my article in The Reelists.  Read it here. To summarize, the ultimate theme of Kill Bill is the confrontation of patriarchy by matriarchy.  On the surface, it seems like a revenge film, but in the end it is a conflict on how to raise children.  I’m glad most parental conflicts don’t need to be resolved so violently.

Ethics—3/5—The two ethical systems are powerfully presented, but in the end both systems rely on violence to fulfill their obligations.  The use of violence is never questioned, the way it subtly is in Pulp Fiction.  Perhaps this is a personal concern, but it is the one thing that separated me from the context of the film.  There are good ethical questions brought up, though.  The place of loyalty in different contexts.  The response to just revenge.   Good stuff, but not emphasized, and the questions are usually given pat answers.



Personal—2/5—The one problem I saw with the film is that it is so far removed from my context and there was nothing done, such as in The Godfather, to allow a “normal” person to be brought into the world, to understand why they think the way they do.   Thus, while I have my own conflict between patriarchy and matriarchy within myself, I can easily dismiss the versions of both philosophies as presented in this film.  The choice between the father with a gun protecting his family’s honor and the mother bear defending her cubs isn’t really a choice at all, it seems.

Despite my reservations, Kill Bill is a masterful film, and one I am proud to put in my Top 100.
"It's not art unless it has the potential to be a disaster." Bansky

sdedalus

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Re: Oldkid's Ultimately Cool (And Long) Top 100 Marathon
« Reply #482 on: April 19, 2011, 08:39:19 PM »
I think the film does question violence, as the various showdowns become less and less murderous.  Check this out for Kill Bill as a Zen allegory.
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oldkid

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Re: Oldkid's Ultimately Cool (And Long) Top 100 Marathon
« Reply #483 on: April 19, 2011, 10:36:14 PM »
I think the film does question violence, as the various showdowns become less and less murderous.  Check this out for Kill Bill as a Zen allegory.

It is true that the Bride is seeing the real people behind her revenge, but I disagree that the violence is toned down.

I read that article about KB and I think it is brilliant.  I am not convinced that it represents the film, but I think it offers a fantastic alternative interpretation.
"It's not art unless it has the potential to be a disaster." Bansky

1SO

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Re: Oldkid's Ultimately Cool (And Long) Top 100 Marathon
« Reply #484 on: April 19, 2011, 11:54:38 PM »
I have no problem separating Vol. 1 from 2 because they're so different in form and content. Looking at your take (which is radically different from mine even though we both really like both films) I see how you can't look at one without the other.

Melvil

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Re: Oldkid's Ultimately Cool (And Long) Top 100 Marathon
« Reply #485 on: April 20, 2011, 12:42:43 AM »
I can't wait to see the Whole Bloody Affair cut. What I've read about the differences and how they affect the experience seems really interesting. I love both movies as they are, but the promise of an ultimate combined cut has me very intrigued.

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Re: Oldkid's Ultimately Cool (And Long) Top 100 Marathon
« Reply #486 on: April 20, 2011, 11:04:26 AM »
Has it been confirmed when/if that will ever be released? I have seen Kill Bill Vol. 1 and parts of Vol. 2, but have held off on rewatching them (and I saw them before I engaged with film the way I do now) because there have long been rumors of an ultimate cut.

oldkid

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Re: Oldkid's Ultimately Cool (And Long) Top 100 Marathon
« Reply #487 on: April 20, 2011, 04:14:57 PM »
Has it been confirmed when/if that will ever be released? I have seen Kill Bill Vol. 1 and parts of Vol. 2, but have held off on rewatching them (and I saw them before I engaged with film the way I do now) because there have long been rumors of an ultimate cut.

He's shown it in L.A., but no date on a DVD release yet.
Here's an article about what the version is like

And, of course, there's Vol. 3, which IMDB says will be released in 2014.

"It's not art unless it has the potential to be a disaster." Bansky

oldkid

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Re: Oldkid's Ultimately Cool (And Long) Top 100 Marathon
« Reply #488 on: April 20, 2011, 04:24:59 PM »
The Seventh Continent



Michael Haneke has quickly become a favorite director of mine.  His films are starkly filmed, and they usually leave out important pieces of information that are only hinted at. Most importantly, they try to open the lid off of polite society and show the wormy core within.  The Seventh Continent is his first film and it is as powerful and as harsh as any of his later films.

 Technical—4/5—If there is one way that Haneke improved in later years, it is cinematography.  Visually, the film is pretty dull.  However, it makes up for unimaginative camerawork with writing and acting.

Interest—5/5—The main question that I ask when watching any Haneke film is: Why is he showing me this?  What is the significance?  In this film, that question isn’t answered until more than halfway through the film.  Then the questions multiply: “Why are they doing this?” “Why bring their daughter into this?”  “Is this action really effective?”  One way or another, my interest is focused and I can’t turn away lest I miss the smallest clue.  (Small clues are important in Haneke films).



Tension—5/5—The tension increases as we see the family’s plan unfold, because, as in all plans, not every aspect works out perfectly.   As we realize what the family is doing, there isn’t a release of tension.  I personally think that Haneke is the master of understated tension.

Emotional—3/5—I am left with questions more than sorrow.  This is a pretty intellectual film about a terribly emotional subject.  I felt some emotion at the end, especially about the child, but given the potential for great emotion, I didn’t feel much.

Characters—3/5—We learn a lot about the characters.  A lot of details, a lot of their philosophy.  But how did the parents come to this conclusion?  How did they justify this to themselves?  Again, I am only partly satisfied because much of what I want to know isn’t clearly told.



Theme—4/5—On the surface, the film is about this family and the action they did.  It is based on a newspaper article in which family does this and it seems, on the surface, to be as cold and objective as a newspaper article.  They did this and then this.  But since the story begins two years before their act, we can see some motivation.  In the motivations, we can perhaps understand the theme: that our reasonable, logical, middle class society can send reasonable people to do irrational, desperate acts.



Ethics—5/5—For those who have not seen the film and might, you might want to skip this paragraph.  Wikipedia and others are wrong in identifying the Seventh Continent with Australia.  Yes, the family says they are moving to Australia, but the seventh continent that they are really moving to is Death. There are three ethical questions that I think the film asks, without really answering it.  First of all, the family assumes that Death is better than living in this world.  But is it really? If it is, how do they know? Secondly, do they have the right to take their child with them to death?  Can they let the child make her own decision about this?  Is this really the best decision for her?  Finally, because their act is not simply a personal act, but a public communication.  Is this communication effective?  Is this the most effective way to give a message about consumerist society?

Personal—3/5—Never would I make such a choice for me or my family.  However, I also am upset at consumerist, narrow-minded society.  I have my own ways of speaking against it.  But are these ways any more effective than their way?  This is the final question I am left with.

The reason I value Haneke’s films is because I think that films that ask questions are just as important or more important than films that answer them.  I think Haneke does answer some questions, but he makes us work for those answers.  This is a puzzle film, but the answers to this puzzle are more important than any Nolan film.  So I feel that I must put Seventh Continent in my top 100, as difficult as it is to watch.
"It's not art unless it has the potential to be a disaster." Bansky

oldkid

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Re: Oldkid's Ultimately Cool (And Long) Top 100 Marathon
« Reply #489 on: April 21, 2011, 12:55:32 PM »
The Gleaners and I



Another personal confession: I am a gleaner.  Not the kind that goes out in the fields and harvests food unharvested, but I go to a “gleaner” to pick up items that grocery stores can’t sell, and I also regularly visit the dumpsters of other stores that don’t give to a gleaner service.   So this movie would already have an extra  push for me.

Technical—4/5—Most documentaries aren’t meant to be made pristinely, but Agnes Varda, the director and narrator, has already been a professional director, and given the un-directed scenes, it is as good as one could imagine it to be.  The editing is superb, and the progress from one gleaner to another is excellently put together.

Interest—5/5—I really didn’t know what to expect, but this is fantastic.  Just as I’m getting tired of a talking head, Varda shifts to scenery, or a dump, and then she switches to her joyful self, explaining her reactions to all this.  I wasn’t bored for a moment.



Tension—2/5—The only real tension was when the wine growers, as a community, determined to deny any gleaning.  I was hoping for repercussions, but no.  It’s just a fact.

Emotional—3/5—Perhaps this was just because of my personal connection to the story, but these people breaking past legal and social barriers to accept what others call trash is truly emotional to me.



Characters—4/5—Agnes Varda is a great character.  Besides making the film, her presence in the film added so much to it.  I’m looking forward to seeing her biography, The Beaches of Agnes. 

Theme—5/5—A very clear theme.  Not only is every person about making use of what others consider unusable, but it is about the moral necessity of accepting those who are socially unacceptable.  Under this theme,  Varda counts herself among the ranks, simply by making the movie.  This film is making the attempt to include those who are excluded, which is, in itself, an act of gleaning.  That meta-message is wonderful as well.



Ethics—5/5—Varda makes a wonderful point: that a deeper morality is found on the edges of society than in the center of it, and we must, by necessity, listen to those edges if we are to be a complete society.

Personal—5/5—I’ve said already that I belong among Agnes’ ranks.   It is like there is a whole army trying to save society from it’s rejections and judgments.  I am pleased to be counted among them.

I don’t consider this a deep film or sophisticated.  However, it is not a preachy film, but it is really more about the joy of being a gleaner.  How wonderful is that!  It will be close, but I’d be happy to have this on my top 100.


"It's not art unless it has the potential to be a disaster." Bansky

 

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