Author Topic: Politics  (Read 234553 times)

etdoesgood

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Re: Politics
« Reply #6580 on: April 26, 2020, 12:21:38 AM »
I hate to be so callous but I know which rapist/sexual predator Iíd rather have in office. Itís not even a contest.
It sucks that these are the choices but Ima put on my big boy pants and vote for the guy who doesnít want to be a dictator.

I would put getting Trump out of office as more important than getting control of the Senate. Obviously if we take the Senate, we can stop any more right-wing judges, but that would be the case with winning the Presidency as well. But nothing else can really change with a simple majority in the Senate that having the House doesn't do. But get a Democratic President and even if legislation (and appointments) are largely stalled, there is a fair range of executive power that can be exerted to make things better.

Anyway, I don't consider who to vote for in the fall a moral challenge in the least.

These two posts summarize my positions quite well.
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jdc

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Re: Politics
« Reply #6581 on: May 27, 2020, 09:19:08 AM »
If there ever was a time to think about pushing Universal Basic Income, it would seem like a good time to embrace it as part of the platform. I believe that more funds need to be made available, I do wonder if it is time to start focusing them on productive projects. There is so much that needs to be done around infrastructurein the US that I do wonder if it could be geared towards that and helping those that need it but maybe it cause too much debate on if it would be safe.

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ďThe direct use of physical force is so poor a solution to the problem of limited resources that it is commonly employed only by small children and great nationsĒ - David Friedman

etdoesgood

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Re: Politics
« Reply #6582 on: Yesterday at 09:05:02 PM »
Surprised this thread isn't a little more lively considering what the U.S.A. is currently going through.

Soooooo...in Scottsdale, there was some looting around the rich people's mall, so of course a curfew comes after that. Even in Yuma, a small city between Phoenix and San Diego, there were a few hundred people out protesting on Saturday.

This is another time where I think on the MLK quote, "a riot is the language of the unheard." This is in the context of a speech where he also calls rioting "socially destructive," but so often you hear people in the dominant culture talk about how people in oppressed minorities are making this worse with their rioting. It might be true, but it's hardly the place for someone who is not oppressed to criticize the oppressed when they severely act out after having experienced atrocities. Also, it seems a lot of rioting and looting is coming from outside of the core causes, though I haven't read as much about that. I see blaming rioters as a form of victim-blaming (when it is actually the victims doing the rioting) and deflection from the real issue, which is a policing culture with counterproductive and outright harmful practices ingrained. I recently read a survey where the majority of all races believe in the value of policing, but if police in areas where most POC live got a user rating on Amazon, they'd be averaging like between 0 and 1 stars, if that's possible. It can be changed. They can demilitarize the police force and learn how to de-escalate situations without putting themselves or others in undue danger. The best practices are out there, they exist. We need a Department of Justice and strong city governance that will make these practices happen. I don't even think they'd cost more money, probably less. And I, for one, am a big supporter of police in general. That's a hard, thankless, potentially fatal, yet valuable job. But their departments need to get their shit together.
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Bondo

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Re: Politics
« Reply #6583 on: Yesterday at 10:23:37 PM »
We briefly touched upon it in the "Whimper" thread. I hate the "the violence/destruction" is justified line that a lot of liberals are taking not because the "unheard" aspect wouldn't be a good explanation but specifically because then it concedes that the rioting is being done by the people protesting police brutality, which to a large extent it doesn't seem to be. And whether it is a testament to the white privilege and supremacy of society, "rioting" is a major political loser. There is good research contrasting the nonviolent protests of the earlier 60s vs riots/rebellions of the latter 60s and 70s in terms of partisan effects.

The key to the effectiveness in the early 1960s, and to Ghandi's independence protests, was being the victim of violence without being seen to be an equal participant. It is insanely difficult. The police are showing their whole ass here. I don't watch a lot of mainstream news sources so I can't tell exactly what line is being fed out, but there does seem to be a broad acknowledgement that cops are getting out of hand in many cases. The notion that the destruction is separate from the protest is also getting at least some traction. I think it is much more useful to hit these two points than to be seen as defending the destruction. Choose the frame that favors you, not your opponent.

Anyway, I haven't had much sign of anything here. I'm far enough out of downtown Denver (or even the "downtowns" of the suburb cities) to be directly affected, and coronavirus is still a thing so I'm not planning on venturing out.

St. Martin the Bald

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Re: Politics
« Reply #6584 on: Yesterday at 11:00:33 PM »
I try not to invoke MLK.
His approach got him killed.

As for the rest, well...Iím not black. I have never experienced the rage, the fear, the distrust, the hopelessness or the body count that American POC experience daily.
I might wanna break some shit too when Iíve had enough.
Iím sure there are bad faith actors creating mayhem but Iíll also guess that itís not too hard to do when you experience the violent response of the police to these protests compared to the lukewarm reception the crazy white ARMED protestors got.
So I wonít color the whole BLM movement by a few bad apples just like the cops ask us not to generalize because of their bad apples. If they would only hold those bad apples accountable and not close ranks around them in protection every time one of them drops a black body.
Makes it really hard to respect the profession when the profession has no internal accountability.
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jdc

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Re: Politics
« Reply #6585 on: Yesterday at 11:51:09 PM »
General news seems to be so poor that it is really difficult to understand what is happening. It seems possible that a lot of the looting and destruction is separate from the protesters with the possibility of other outside influence trying to cause more trouble. But yeah, I think you can imagine that when people have had enough, breaking shit may seem reasonable. But is it effective, probably not as Bondo pointed out.  It does give the "Law and Order" side a moral stance (even if within their heads) of any actions that they may take instead of trying to bring the nation together and figure out how to resolve and heal these issues. 




"Beer. Now there's a temporary solution."  Homer S.
ďThe direct use of physical force is so poor a solution to the problem of limited resources that it is commonly employed only by small children and great nationsĒ - David Friedman

etdoesgood

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Re: Politics
« Reply #6586 on: Today at 03:25:33 AM »
There was rioting and looting in the Civil Rights Movement, and progress was still made. The situation with Gandhi is also much more complicated than commonly presented. I haven't read enough to know if a true cause-and-effect relationship between rioting and looting and progress or lack of progress, but I know, just from my position as a white person, that white people should check themselves before criticizing the rioting and looting, because they don't understand what it's like to be a POC dealing with, like St Martin said, the distrust, the body count, and so on.

That said, I wouldn't take rioting and looting as a sound political strategy, nor is it called for by any of the major organizations holding protests. It scares a great number of white people, still the majority, obviously, to retreat further into their white privilege bubble and start embracing the law and order politics by which, I think, they'd otherwise be repulsed (as they stand...I like actual law and order that serves everyone, but we know that's not the "law and order" the privileged majority culture understands). I think fear is a great motivator of the majority culture in any country, just look at India with Modi, Russia with Putin, China and their Party, but it is clearly effective in the States at motivating a population of white people to vote in a horror show that somehow makes them feel safe and secure. He lost the popular vote, but won the white vote 58% to 37%. Thing is, you can't just tell people not to riot and loot, so you either accept that it happens sometimes as a result of injustice and make sure property owners are made whole, or you go with the fascist police state option, gas and blast peaceful protesters and, who knows, invoke the Insurrection Act or otherwise find some justification for deploying the military to quell the protests.

I didn't like the direction our country was headed in 2016, and I'm very, very worried about it now. I think most of us think that America could never be a fascist dictatorship, but our democracy is clearly not safeguarded sufficiently to prevent the suppression of free speech or electing a president with the second-most votes. I think we need a new Constitution that reflects the reality of a post-industrial, information-based country. (BTW, save all the gun toting, which I think should be totally illegal and felonious, I found some empathy for the anti-quarantine/lockdown activists and protesters. I disagree with them, but I get it. A sticky issue is: Where do your rights to protest end and the interest of the public health begin?)

I also think we need to take care of reparations for Black and indigenous people.

Thank you for letting me get all of that off my chest.
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St. Martin the Bald

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Re: Politics
« Reply #6587 on: Today at 04:30:12 AM »
Just to clarify - Iím not saying that rioting and looting are good life choices but I get it. Iím angry, scared and frustrated and lashing out like that has a real limbic system appeal to it.
For me at least, Iím trying to respect their rage.
I have to honor where theyíre at because itís CINECAST!ing authentic and true and born out of centuries of collective pain and terror.
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jdc

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Re: Politics
« Reply #6588 on: Today at 05:28:17 AM »
I found some empathy for the anti-quarantine/lockdown activists and protesters. I disagree with them, but I get it. A sticky issue is: Where do your rights to protest end and the interest of the public health begin?)

As one that has been questioning the rational of quarantining the healthy and not focusing on the high risk groups, this is one thing I have been wondering about. The protests, even with masks and such, has likely has greatly reduced the effort of having lockdown for the last few months. Will see if there is a spike or not and will this start over again.  Or do we just forget trying to seriously lock down and learn to function with a different set of societal rules

It is hard to get an accurate picture to how effective the measures have been and if the policies have been warranted. I donít see a lot of raw data that really breaks out those most effected and why.

I can trace back all the Singapore numbers, 35,836 cases, 24 deaths, youngest is 51

  While the death rates maybe relatives accurate measured between countries, it probably is impossible to compare the number effected as there is no standard to determine it.
I wish there were more randomised studies to try to accurately determine the number effected.
"Beer. Now there's a temporary solution."  Homer S.
ďThe direct use of physical force is so poor a solution to the problem of limited resources that it is commonly employed only by small children and great nationsĒ - David Friedman