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Voting closed: November 15, 2010, 10:55:43 PM

Author Topic: Filmspotters' Top 100 Documentaries: FYC and Your Lists  (Read 61707 times)

Bondo

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Re: Filmspotters' Top 100 Documentaries: FYC and Your Lists
« Reply #70 on: November 11, 2010, 04:24:20 PM »
I can't think of a pure concert film that I'd rate highly as a film (as opposed to just liking their music). My standard would be its success in delivering something I wouldn't get from just going to a concert, whether it is backstage, interviews or just close-ups that give me a better indication of the artist as performer. That said, I have no strong objection.

maņana

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Re: Filmspotters' Top 100 Documentaries: FYC and Your Lists
« Reply #71 on: November 11, 2010, 04:33:16 PM »
but it just doesn't seem right to have a purely performance-based film in this thing.
How come? I'm not trying to be a pain or anything, I was just wondering if you could articulate your reservations. Would The Last Waltz, which does have short interview clips, qualify based on your definition?
« Last Edit: November 11, 2010, 06:17:07 PM by matt tmw »
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Verite

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Re: Filmspotters' Top 100 Documentaries: FYC and Your Lists
« Reply #72 on: November 11, 2010, 04:40:44 PM »
It's funny that I think of music concert films as docs but never thought of standup comedy ones like Eddie Murphy's Delirious as such.  So can we include standup comedy films?
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MartinTeller

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Re: Filmspotters' Top 100 Documentaries: FYC and Your Lists
« Reply #73 on: November 11, 2010, 04:44:57 PM »
but it just doesn't seem right to have a purely performance-based film in this thing.
How come? I'm not trying to be a pain or anything, I was just wondering if you could articulate your reservations. Would The Last Waltz, which does have short interview clips, quality based on your definition?

I dunno, I haven't seen Last Waltz.  But like I said, it's tricky.  I'm worried about opening a huge can of worms regarding the definition of documentary.  I guess I could say a documentary should impart some kind of information, but someone could respond with "Stop Making Sense tells you what a Talking Heads concert is like".  It does document an event (actually two or three, because it wasn't all from one show) so I dunno.  Then we get into stuff like "What about Eddie Murphy: Raw?" (Ver Schmer made his post as I was typing this)

I didn't realize before how strict I can be about genre boundaries, but between this and the Noir-vember thread, I guess I'm kind of a tight-ass about it.

Bondo

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Re: Filmspotters' Top 100 Documentaries: FYC and Your Lists
« Reply #74 on: November 11, 2010, 05:10:59 PM »
Of course if I were playing dictator, I'd rule out stuff like 24 City and Waltz With Bashir because I personally don't consider them documentaries. As is, I've just drawn the line at youtube videos.

To illustrate my personal line on the stand-up/concert aspect, I have Believe: The Eddie Izzard Story on my list because it very much is a document of his life (with scenes from stand-up) but I don't have Eddie Izzard: Circle or The Definite Article because I feel the video capture doesn't really add anything beyond what I'd experience sitting in the crowd. At the end of the day, even if we could agree on a precise definition, I haven't seen a majority of the films being nominated so I wouldn't be able to make a ruling on it so I'm trusting people to be reasonable, which may include concert videos but doesn't include obvious narrative film.

On Stop Making Sense, I'd say if you don't think it is a doc, don't put it on your list. If it doesn't make it you can figure it is because it isn't a doc. If it does make the cut then you can rate it highly and hope for its high placement on the list because like you said, if you were counting it, it would rate highly. That's another benefit of the two-tier system, we dispense with all the "is it or isn't it" talk after the first round and don't punish films in the second round for being on the borderline.

'Noke

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Re: Filmspotters' Top 100 Documentaries: FYC and Your Lists
« Reply #75 on: November 11, 2010, 06:33:30 PM »
'scuse me!
Where's Night Mail? It's an absolute classic, with the poetry of Auden and Betjeman to boot!
Is it because we is British?  :)

Yes. Yes it is.

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maņana

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Re: Filmspotters' Top 100 Documentaries: FYC and Your Lists
« Reply #76 on: November 11, 2010, 06:57:38 PM »
On Stop Making Sense, I'd say if you don't think it is a doc, don't put it on your list.
That's probably the best way to handle it, leave it to the individual.

To illustrate my personal line on the stand-up/concert aspect, I have Believe: The Eddie Izzard Story on my list because it very much is a document of his life (with scenes from stand-up) but I don't have Eddie Izzard: Circle or The Definite Article because I feel the video capture doesn't really add anything beyond what I'd experience sitting in the crowd.
Hmm, I haven't seen either of those Eddie Izzard films, but I do know that Richard Pryor Live on the Sunset Strip is shot and assembled in such a way that it creates something separate from the live experience despite only being a concert film; that in conjunction with the performer, the filmmaker has created something that is possibly similar to attending the event (I can't say, I wasn't there), but is nevertheless a distinct document. Or let's look at it another way, if the filmmaker has in fact captured what it was like to be there (the atmosphere, the energy, the excitement...etc.) that is also documentary filmmaking. Including "bio-docs", but not "event-docs" seems too narrow to me.

I dunno, I haven't seen Last Waltz.  But like I said, it's tricky.  I'm worried about opening a huge can of worms regarding the definition of documentary.  I guess I could say a documentary should impart some kind of information, but someone could respond with "Stop Making Sense tells you what a Talking Heads concert is like".  It does document an event (actually two or three, because it wasn't all from one show) so I dunno.  Then we get into stuff like "What about Eddie Murphy: Raw?" (Ver Schmer made his post as I was typing this)
I guess I'm not certain what that can of worms is, particularly in this case. For me Stop Making Sense is an artful treatment of an actual event, a rock concert, and that's enough for me. If somebody wanted to put Raw on their list, I don't see how that's a problem either.

I didn't realize before how strict I can be about genre boundaries, but between this and the Noir-vember thread, I guess I'm kind of a tight-ass about it.
I can relate. For the Best of the Decade lists (were you around for that?), I abstained from putting My Winnipeg on my documentary list, but did put it on my best films list. All of the arguments for its inclusion now have me questioning that decision and make me wonder if I was just too close to the subject matter. I may have to revisit it and my thoughts on how it relates to documentary, but for now I'm leaving it off any doc lists I might make.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2010, 07:21:32 PM by matt tmw »
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Adrienne

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Re: Filmspotters' Top 100 Documentaries: FYC and Your Lists
« Reply #77 on: November 12, 2010, 08:44:03 AM »
'scuse me!
Where's Night Mail? It's an absolute classic, with the poetry of Auden and Betjeman to boot!
Is it because we is British?  :)
Yes. Yes it is.
(Hi Mosca, I'm Irish.)
Celtic's good  :)

Senor Javi

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Re: Filmspotters' Top 100 Documentaries: FYC and Your Lists
« Reply #78 on: November 23, 2010, 11:17:12 AM »
Here's what I've got:

1. Hoop Dreams
2. Gates of Heaven
3. Night and Fog
4. Capturing the Friedmans
5. Little Dieter Needs to Fly
6. Young@Heart
7. Bigger, Stronger, Faster
8. The Cats of Mirikitani
9. Jesus Camp
10. The King of Kong
11. Religulous
12. Judgment Day: Intelligent Design on Trial
13. American Movie
14. The Fog of War
15. Dear Zachary
16. The Fall of Fujimori
17. Grizzly Man
18. Man on Wire
19. The Thin Blue Line
20. My Kid Could Paint That
21. Twist of Faith
22. No End in Sight
23. An Inconvenient Truth
24. Spellbound
25. Salesman
26. F for Fake
27. Anvil!: The Story of Anvil
28. Roman Polanksi: Wanted and Desired
29. I.O.U.S.A.
30. Street Fight
31. American Teen
32. For All Mankind
33. General Idi Amin Dada
34. Standard Operating Procedure
35. Harlan County U.S.A.
36. Super Size Me
37. Hell House
38. Taxi to the Darkside
39. This Film Is Not Yet Rated
40. Wordplay
41. The Aristocrats
42. Who Killed the Electric Car?
43. Lost in La Mancha
44. Encounters at the End of the World
45. Michael Moore Hates America
46. Comedian
47. Beyond the Mat
48. Murderball
49. Fall from Grace
50. March of the Penguins
My Switchboard - Movies Watched in 2010, The Year So Far, Top 200 Films, and more!

Beavermoose

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Re: Filmspotters' Top 100 Documentaries: FYC and Your Lists
« Reply #79 on: November 23, 2010, 10:07:33 PM »
Dogtown and the Z boys
Surfwise
Riding Giants