Author Topic: DOC-ember 2010 Group Marathon  (Read 43207 times)

Bondo

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Re: DOC-ember 2010 Group Marathon
« Reply #110 on: December 14, 2010, 09:52:39 AM »
Exit Through The Gift Shop (Banksy, 2010)

So given my recent response to the 80s film Style Wars, I certainly have a limited appreciation "street art," and frankly, my interest in art documentaries is out of a strong feeling of not getting it. Exit Through The Gift Shop has a few advantages...the guys in focus here have street art that, while still usually vandalism, is definitely more likely to have an "oh, neat" factor. It is also just a more entertaining construction of a film.

Now to stir things up, I probably shouldn't be reviewing this film for this marathon. I'm not convinced this is a documentary. I'm pretty sure that documentarian within the documentary, Thierry Guetta, is comedian and television alcoholic Zane Lamprey in makeup. Or something. Now, even if the filmed interviewer is fictitious ala Borat and Bruno, the rest of this film feels more authentic than Cohen's works. It isn't based on highly contrived interactions or stunts even though it is contrived structurally. Maybe this character of Thierry is just an effective and efficient way of getting to the truth, and in that way it is sufficiently documentary, but I'm not really convinced.

Whatever ETTGS is, it is a really fun, engaging film, and should be seen.

smirnoff

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Re: DOC-ember 2010 Group Marathon
« Reply #111 on: December 14, 2010, 10:00:00 AM »
I guess at the end of the day, whether it's a deception or not doesn't really change the message does it? Just the motivation?

Corndog

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Re: DOC-ember 2010 Group Marathon
« Reply #112 on: December 14, 2010, 10:59:35 AM »
Soul Power (Jeffrey Levy-Hinte, 2009)

Essentially this is a concert film. The first half is about the oranization of the festival in Zaire in 1974 to coincide with Ali/Foreman and the second half is mostly comprised of footage of the performances with some side interviews and snippets from the event. I have always found that judging a concert film is very difficult to do cinematically. In essence it depends on how you like the music, and apart from that you can't really compare it to other documentaries or films. In this case I loved the music, but the film itself was not interesting, enlightening, or compelling. Levy-Hinte tries to incorporate the theme of Blacks coming together to support each other and their struggle throughout the world, but the setting, the backdrop of that theme is not fitting, despite being a black music festival taking place in Africa. It just felt flat the whole way through, except for the performances which were full of energy, but the narrative was flat and dull. It carried no weight, or even exuberance, like the festival was supposed to be a celebration, but the film didn't make it feel like it. Worth it just to hear the music though.
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MartinTeller

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Re: DOC-ember 2010 Group Marathon
« Reply #113 on: December 14, 2010, 11:20:15 AM »
Reading some of these complaints is like listening to art critics blast a 5 year old for his finger paintings.

Note that My Kid Could Paint That is a fascinating documentary that everyone should check out.  If you get the DVD, be sure to check out the bonus interview with Michael Kellerman.

This film transcends criticism. It's a home video. Personal, raw, honest, awkward, imperfect. But it was shot with love. It's not just some f'ing piece of art.

If you put your work out there for scrutiny, it's open to criticism.  It's not a "home video" because it was released for the world to see.  Also, most films are "shot with love".  It's hard not to be moved by the story Kuenne tells, but that doesn't mean it couldn't have been told better.

FWIW, here's my old mini-review:

Quote from: me
There is no doubt that this is an incredibly compelling story, a series of events that are almost too emotionally upsetting for the heart to bear.  Kurt Kuenne, the director of the film and a man with close ties to its subjects, has a great tale to tell, and I wanted to know how it would unfold... up to a certain point, that is.  Doing my best not to spoil anything here, but the narrative of the film takes a nosedive around the three-quarters mark and didn't recapture my interest until the last few touching minutes.  Kuenne seems to have serious pacing issues, a problem that plagues the movie throughout.  Despite being emotionally invested, I often found myself a little bit annoyed by certain quirks or bits that felt cheap or amateurish.  The use of repetition, used for both sentimental effect and ironic effect, is WAY overdone.  Kuenne is simply not a very gifted filmmaker.  But he is a man with a good heart, and I thank him for giving me some heavy stuff to mull over, and a few good cries.  Rating: 7

1SO

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Re: DOC-ember 2010 Group Marathon
« Reply #114 on: December 14, 2010, 11:38:23 AM »
Exit Through The Gift Shop (Banksy, 2010)

So given my recent response to the 80s film Style Wars, I certainly have a limited appreciation "street art," and frankly, my interest in art documentaries is out of a strong feeling of not getting it. Exit Through The Gift Shop has a few advantages...the guys in focus here have street art that, while still usually vandalism, is definitely more likely to have an "oh, neat" factor. It is also just a more entertaining construction of a film.

My favorite debate about the film, do we give vandalism a pass because the work is "neat"?  Then you have to decide why Banksy gets a pass while the guy who paints purple strips on passing trains is a vandal.

Now you should vote here.

smirnoff

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Re: DOC-ember 2010 Group Marathon
« Reply #115 on: December 14, 2010, 12:15:35 PM »
Reading some of these complaints is like listening to art critics blast a 5 year old for his finger paintings.

Note that My Kid Could Paint That is a fascinating documentary that everyone should check out.  If you get the DVD, be sure to check out the bonus interview with Michael Kellerman.

Seen it. Love it :) Though I didn't get to see the bonus stuff. Maybe I can track it down on youtube or something.

This film transcends criticism. It's a home video. Personal, raw, honest, awkward, imperfect. But it was shot with love. It's not just some f'ing piece of art.

If you put your work out there for scrutiny, it's open to criticism.  It's not a "home video" because it was released for the world to see.  Also, most films are "shot with love".  It's hard not to be moved by the story Kuenne tells, but that doesn't mean it couldn't have been told better.

Okay okay, maybe not exactly like a home video, but that's about how I'm choosing to see it. When I say shot with love, I guess I mean only love. I don't feel like Kuenne is trying to show off his art or make money (unless you count the charities this film is connected with) or advance his career or anything that goes along with typical movie making. However there is a brief political message at the end of the film, so it's not 100% pure by any means. Still, close enough for me to feel like it's coming from a unique place.

Anyways, your right, the film puts itself out there. You can criticize it if you want. If I did, I would agree it has flaws, but looking at it that way seems wrong to me.

ses

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Re: DOC-ember 2010 Group Marathon
« Reply #116 on: December 14, 2010, 02:35:10 PM »
Soul Power (Jeffrey Levy-Hinte, 2009)

Essentially this is a concert film. The first half is about the oranization of the festival in Zaire in 1974 to coincide with Ali/Foreman and the second half is mostly comprised of footage of the performances with some side interviews and snippets from the event. I have always found that judging a concert film is very difficult to do cinematically. In essence it depends on how you like the music, and apart from that you can't really compare it to other documentaries or films. In this case I loved the music, but the film itself was not interesting, enlightening, or compelling. Levy-Hinte tries to incorporate the theme of Blacks coming together to support each other and their struggle throughout the world, but the setting, the backdrop of that theme is not fitting, despite being a black music festival taking place in Africa. It just felt flat the whole way through, except for the performances which were full of energy, but the narrative was flat and dull. It carried no weight, or even exuberance, like the festival was supposed to be a celebration, but the film didn't make it feel like it. Worth it just to hear the music though.


You should really watch When We Were Kings, the documentary about the fight itself.  It is a very good documentary.
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zarodinu

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Re: DOC-ember 2010 Group Marathon
« Reply #117 on: December 15, 2010, 01:15:08 PM »
Exit Through The Gift Shop (Banksy, 2010)

So given my recent response to the 80s film Style Wars, I certainly have a limited appreciation "street art," and frankly, my interest in art documentaries is out of a strong feeling of not getting it. Exit Through The Gift Shop has a few advantages...the guys in focus here have street art that, while still usually vandalism, is definitely more likely to have an "oh, neat" factor. It is also just a more entertaining construction of a film.

My favorite debate about the film, do we give vandalism a pass because the work is "neat"?  Then you have to decide why Banksy gets a pass while the guy who paints purple strips on passing trains is a vandal.

Now you should vote here.

Street art vandalism is like James Cameron's bad writing, I forgive both if the end product is good.
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Bondo

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Re: DOC-ember 2010 Group Marathon
« Reply #118 on: December 15, 2010, 02:26:54 PM »
Grey Gardens (Meysles Brothers, 1975)

So if you were going to recommend a first Maysles Brothers documentary for me, perhaps this wouldn't be it. I went with it because it was on Netflix Instant, and because I'm not all that interested in the Rolling Stones, so their more famous doc/concert film Gimme Shelter wasn't a must see. But watch this I did, and it does not inspire much confidence in the Meysles style.

This documentary is a good assemblage of everything I hate in documentary. For starters, it feels highly exploitative of these batty old women who just happen to be related to someone legitimately famous. Maybe they went along with it or even reveled in the attention, but the only way they can classify as interesting subjects is if you are interested in laughing at these strange individuals. And the fact that I didn't find the subject interesting made the Wiseman-like unstructured capturing of discussions utterly interminable. Wiseman has great taste in subjects so he can get away with this, I'm not convinced the Meysles have that.

Interesting note. Albert Maysles is cinematographer for Oliver Stone's South of the Border, a film I gave a recommendation of earlier in the marathon. I do plan on watching his Rufus Wainwright concert doc when it becomes available out of interest in Wainwright and to give him another chance, but extrapolating from Grey Gardens, I am baffled. I just don't see how anyone would watch this and say, there's some good documentarians there. I don't mean to say that they are wrong to, just that I lack the capacity to see what could be enjoyable or redeeming about the style and choices on display here. When I think of all the documentarians that didn't make the best directors list I just don't understand it at all.

1SO

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Re: DOC-ember 2010 Group Marathon
« Reply #119 on: December 15, 2010, 02:36:23 PM »
Street art vandalism is like James Cameron's bad writing, I forgive both if the end product is good.
I agree, but that's the big question... who decides what's good and what's not.  Going further Mr. Brainwash stands on the shoulders of real artists and steals from them without apology.  So is his work as worthy?  or does he simply borrow from lesser known works to create his own reputation.

wow, can't believe I said all that when I'm a Tarantino fan.

 

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