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Author Topic: Movie Lists  (Read 55841 times)

Sam the Cinema Snob

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Re: Movie Lists
« Reply #230 on: October 05, 2017, 01:43:27 PM »
No Southland Tales.  :'(

DarkeningHumour

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Re: Movie Lists
« Reply #231 on: October 05, 2017, 01:55:11 PM »
I don't know what kind of pedantic distinction you plan to make here, but to most people a movie about time travel is well within the realm of "science fiction".

So when Harry travels back to the past with his thingamajig that makes Prisoner of Azkaban science fiction? Surely science fiction requires the usage of some actual science and technology in the story.
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oldkid

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Re: Movie Lists
« Reply #232 on: October 05, 2017, 02:00:38 PM »
Isaac Asimov in his time-travel book The Edge of Eternity agreed that time travel is a fantasy within the science fiction genre, but he still called it "science fiction", because it is a trope within the genre.  The only one of his books he called strictly fantasy is Fantastic Voyage about shrinking people and putting them into a human body.
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MartinTeller

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Re: Movie Lists
« Reply #233 on: October 05, 2017, 02:11:25 PM »
I don't know what kind of pedantic distinction you plan to make here, but to most people a movie about time travel is well within the realm of "science fiction".

So when Harry travels back to the past with his thingamajig that makes Prisoner of Azkaban science fiction? Surely science fiction requires the usage of some actual science and technology in the story.

I would say it's a matter of degree and perception. HP has so much other stuff happening under the umbrella of "magic" that it feels more fantasy than sci-fi. Either way, it feels like a very nitpicky case of splitting hairs. Which I recognize is kind of your thing, but that doesn't mean it has to be mine. We all have our own ideas of genre definitions, and I tend to have much less rigid "rules" than you do. You can reference any number of "gotcha!" exceptions, but About Time is still sci-fi (and what the heck, fantasy too) to me, as well as romance and comedy.

Teproc

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Re: Movie Lists
« Reply #234 on: October 05, 2017, 04:36:27 PM »
oldkid, how is Gravity science-fiction ? It's just fiction, the ISS exists and we have people doing maintenance there. The film is far-fetched in some aspects, but no more (rather less I'd say) than your average action movie. Granted, most action movies are sci-fi nowadays, but you know what I mean.

I haven't seen About Time, but I think it's very possible for something to be both fantasy and sci-fi. See also: Star Wars.
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oldkid

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Re: Movie Lists
« Reply #235 on: October 05, 2017, 05:19:24 PM »
It is science fiction in which is creates a series of events that has not happened, but is possible, according to science.  Like The Martian, it is hard science fiction that shows us what the next step might be.   Also, I think it qualifies under the genre category: unless it is history (e.g. Apollo 13), stories about humans in space are science fiction, which is an old category.  I think that Gravity builds on that older genre of science fiction (2001, etc).
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Teproc

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Re: Movie Lists
« Reply #236 on: October 05, 2017, 05:23:11 PM »
Science-fiction is speculative, where's the speculation in Gravity ?

The Martian is science-fiction because it's based on some extrapolations on what Mars is like. Like our ability to grow potatoes there. We might be able to, there's evidence to suggest we could, but we don't really know.

There's nothing speculative in Gravity. It's just fiction. It's "based on science", but so is everything: The Hunt is "based on science" because we see people living and breathing and hey, that has to do with science: biology ! Also it has a witch-hunt (figurative): sociology ! By that logic anything and everything is science-fiction.
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oldkid

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Re: Movie Lists
« Reply #237 on: October 05, 2017, 05:59:54 PM »
Again, with some exception, the "humans in space" genre is science fiction.   It is speculative, since the chain reaction from the missile has never happened.  That's guesswork.  As is the possibility of floating from one satellite to another.  One could argue whether it is more or less likely and physicists have, but it is certainly speculation at this point.
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DarkeningHumour

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Re: Movie Lists
« Reply #238 on: October 06, 2017, 04:46:05 AM »
I am going to pick up from Teproc here. Granted, none of those events have happened ; but neither have those of your random convoluted action movie. We understand the things that happen in Gravity in the same way we understand physics on Earth, regardless of whether they have actually happened. If you made a movie about a hurricane in Germany would you call that science fiction? It had never happened, but there is nothing much mysterious about hurricanes or Germany - except for, you know, the Germans. The chain reaction would also be guess work, but so is your average action sequence involving large vehicles and collisions.

It seems to me that your definition of the genre is based on its tropes from way back when. Everything involving space in the fifties was definitely fiction, and certainly most time travel stories involve science and machinery. As science evolves however, surely the boundaries of the genre must too change. Jules Vernes' 20,000 Leagues was science fiction but I don't think you would argue Hunt for the Red October is too.

To go back to About Time, yes, as I said, time travel is indeed typically associated with sci-fi. Those movies always present one with some explanation for why time travel is possible or how it works, from silly Deloreans to big energy machines (Terminator) or black holes. The whole point of science fiction is to imagine the possibilities of discovering new technologies, or in some cases, living in universes with slightly different physical realities so that things like time travel or travelling at the speed or light are possible. About Time doesn't bother with that and just gives its characters a magical ability.

Contending that time travel belongs to the realm of science fiction in any and all cases seems like a historical argument that does not allow for new precedent. It's always been in this genre so from now on it shall always be. Would a movie about a boy visiting alternate dimensions with a magical trinket belong to sci-fi too? Alternate dimensions are an old trope of the genre too. What about a story about thinking machines forged by the dwarves, or exploring the cosmos with a couple of interstellar demi gods and their space caravel?

I haven't seen About Time, but I think it's very possible for something to be both fantasy and sci-fi. See also: Star Wars.

As far as I am concerned, SW is more fantasy than sci-fi. Not only is there straight up magic in it, Lucas completely disregards all laws of physics, biology and reason in his worldbuilding. Clearly evolution does not exist in the SW universe, the speed of light is something to be multiplied, there is sound in space, you can create a laser beam that stops at a given length, an inconceivable number of planets supports life, not to mention every single thing surrounding robotics and artificial intelligence. His is a realm that utterly belongs to fantasy but has been dressed with the trappings of space stories.
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Teproc

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Re: Movie Lists
« Reply #239 on: October 06, 2017, 04:48:58 AM »
I'd say a hurricane in Germany is more sci-fi than anything in Gravity. Most James Bond movies have more sci-fi elements than Gravity too.
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